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Permacomputing Principles

permacomputing.net

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Re: Permacomputing Principles

#221

Post by anon7725 »

zahlman wrote: post #199
HerbManic wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you are playing the role of Cassandra today. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in tech that are just covering their ears saying "la la la la! I CANT HEAR YOU!!!" as they don't want to hear these things. They aren't bad people, not even close. We all do this to some degree. Its just that we all think we are the good virtuous people and yet all of us have some form of negative impact on the world, especial…

> Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in tech that are just covering their ears saying "la la la la! I CANT HEAR YOU!!!" They are doing nothing of the sort. They are telling you that they have heard the argument countless times already, and disagree with it as strongly as ever. I reject the implicit definition of "politics" required to make the argument (which does not agree with common use, even if dictionaries…

> By my back of the envelope calculations, we produce something like 300kg of CO2 annually simply by breathing. I would prefer to continue to live, however.

The CO2 that you exhale came from elements that were fairly recently part of an animal or vegetable - ie part of an active and ongoing carbon cycle, rather than deposited into the ground 100M years ago and pulled out to be inserted into the system.

Carbon cycles aren't bad - they're fundamental to life on Earth, obviously. It's making the system unstable by continuous addition that causes the problem.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#222

Post by ulbu »

ulbu wrote: post #212
rolandhvar wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not a popular opinion around here, but here goes anyway: the fundamental problem is that unless your net worth is $100m+, there is no point being a do-gooder as any attempts to fix big moral hazards are only going to harm you more than it's worth. So why bother?

it's not about mending the world. it's about finding pleasure in living out what's right. it's embodying of a value, a moral principle. the way you express it says that the breadth of the effect of your choices is an essential parameter in considering your processes. I dislike this position due to its administrative, almost corporate undertone; I do understand it and ascribe to it myself in administrative matters, bu…

orr, maybe it is about mending the world. but the little part that’s yours.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#223

Post by mathgladiator »

luqtas wrote: post #107
myrmidon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] permacomputing is an anti-capitalist political project. It is driven by several strands of anarchism, decoloniality, intersectional feminism, post-marxism, degrowth, ecologism.

so tackling emergent discussions on equality and justice of our bloody past is a non-go... why do you think "permacomputing" started to exist in the first place? to make rich people have more durable products? /s

I'd be happier with more durable products!

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#224

Post by xantronix »

myrmidon wrote: post #213
jefurii wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break it to you, but computing is totally related to colonialism. Where do you think the materials that go into a modern computer come from? It'd be nice if all that was mined in the good ol' U.S. of A but it's not, and that's where we get connected to colonialism. Not to mention labor.

What do you mean by colonialism? If industrial production/mining in lower wage countries is "colonialism" to you, then I strongly disagree, and so would most dictionaries. Colonialism, to me, implies exerting direct political control over a territory (without allowing it democratic participation) and ressource/value extraction against the will of the local population. Assembling phones in China/buying silicone in Bra…

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893...

If that's not colonialism, I don't know what is.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#225

Post by lynx97 »

colechristensen wrote: post #149
botanrice wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honestly bruh this is weirdly combative and not a good look on behalf of whatever movements you stand for

Which movements are those again? When you're young you're naïve, when you're old you're cursed with a false nostalgia. It's the human condition and we're all kinda stupid like that. You'll have trouble pinning down which group I'm attacking and which I'm supporting.

> When you're young you're naïve, when you're old you're cursed with a false nostalgia

How convenient! So you can dismiss any comment on the basis of them being either to young or to old. I think you're overestimating the stupidity of others to fall for your simpleton attempt of manipulating people.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#226

Post by [deleted] »

bccdee wrote: post #153
jamilton wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a mistake to view any politics as bolted on. I think it's unlikely some people were interested in "mindful and resilient and ecological use of computing" completely apolitically, with no other political or ideological background. This principles page doesn't seem to have any irrelevant politics to me.

> There are huge environmental and societal issues in today's computing, and permacomputing specifically wants to challenge them in the same way as permaculture has challenged industrial agriculture. Permacomputing seems like a body of values and practices that is extremely grounded in a particular political perspective. It's odd to regard permaculture, degrowth, anarchism, decoloniality, intersectional feminism, etc…

[deleted]

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#227

Post by hitekker »

bccdee wrote: post #153
jamilton wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a mistake to view any politics as bolted on. I think it's unlikely some people were interested in "mindful and resilient and ecological use of computing" completely apolitically, with no other political or ideological background. This principles page doesn't seem to have any irrelevant politics to me.

> There are huge environmental and societal issues in today's computing, and permacomputing specifically wants to challenge them in the same way as permaculture has challenged industrial agriculture. Permacomputing seems like a body of values and practices that is extremely grounded in a particular political perspective. It's odd to regard permaculture, degrowth, anarchism, decoloniality, intersectional feminism, etc…

I'm unconvinced. https://duskos.org/ doesn't tell a story about fashionable ideologies fused-together for the greater good. Dusk/Collapse OS does what it says on the tin, minus moralizing and metaphors.

In any case, I detect an omnicause because people are sloganeering on its behalf below:

"If you see this as political, you should fix yourself", "computing is related to colonialism", "everything is political" etc.

Re: Permacomputing Principles

#228

Post by myrmidon »

xantronix wrote: post #224
myrmidon wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by colonialism? If industrial production/mining in lower wage countries is "colonialism" to you, then I strongly disagree, and so would most dictionaries. Colonialism, to me, implies exerting direct political control over a territory (without allowing it democratic participation) and ressource/value extraction against the will of the local population. Assembling phones in China/buying silicone in Bra…

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893... If that's not colonialism, I don't know what is.

Colonialism in Congo would be controlling the local government, administrating/allocating mining workers and extracting raw material against the will of the local population.

"Buying stuff from poor countries" is not colonialism.

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