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Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

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Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#221

Post by [deleted] »

Chris2048 wrote: post #116
kube-system wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, drug use is also influenced by social and economic status, which also influences driving risks. People of lower socioeconomic status drive less safe cars on less safe roads for longer commutes. This is something valid to evaluate with a drug like THC which is detectable long after use. It would be nice to see the distribution of levels detected and not just the average.

> People of lower socioeconomic status drive less safe cars on less safe roads for longer commutes. But can't you account for 'type of car', 'type of road', 'commute length' as direct variables pretty easily without dipping into social/economic backgrounds?

[deleted]

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#222

Post by kelseyfrog »

SubmarineClub wrote: post #208
cultofmetatron wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is that our urban planning is so F@#$ed that taking away someone's ability to drive is tantamount to sentencing someone to poverty. In most of the country, you are completely dependent on a car to hold down a job, get groceries and pretty much anything else. In most other countries, not having a car is a mild to moderate inconvenience you can work around.

Sounds like a good reason not to commit traffic crimes then. Start punishing these people severely so that they might serve as an example to the rest

Has that ever worked?

AFAIK, all evidence says that people don't consider consequences. If they did, they wouldn't be behaving like that in the first place. Punitive punishment feels much much better for people who have a specific set of values.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#223

Post by kube-system »

Chris2048 wrote: post #116
kube-system wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, drug use is also influenced by social and economic status, which also influences driving risks. People of lower socioeconomic status drive less safe cars on less safe roads for longer commutes. This is something valid to evaluate with a drug like THC which is detectable long after use. It would be nice to see the distribution of levels detected and not just the average.

> People of lower socioeconomic status drive less safe cars on less safe roads for longer commutes. But can't you account for 'type of car', 'type of road', 'commute length' as direct variables pretty easily without dipping into social/economic backgrounds?

The socioeconomics of the situation is why I'm questioning it, not what I think would be best measured.

Although it certainly isn't "easy" to measure all of this directly; there are thousands of that constitute the type of driving scenario that someone might engage in. Even just "type of road" isn't a single thing, it's hundreds of things.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#224

Post by mchusma »

Self driving cars can’t come fast enough to save lives. I’d love to have states start today at cracking down on unsafe drivers of all kinds. I suspect that converting just 10% of miles to self driving + getting rid of 10% most unsafe drivers would reduce fatalities 50%.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#225

Post by macNchz »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #156
macNchz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a very widespread problem, I think, and probably has a complex mix of causes, but my perception as a NYC runner, cyclist, and driver is that there’s a fairly small percentage of extremely antisocial drivers who we allow to behave badly with relative impunity, which itself moves the Overton window of driving behavior towards aggression/chaos, so to speak. Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in whi…

For these reasons, many countries have adopted a point-based system for driving licences. E.G: in France you have 12 points, driving over the speed limit is a fine, but also removes up to 6 points depending on the speed. If you go down to 0 points, your licence is suspended. If you stay without a fine for long enough, you get back points. Some countries have fines that depend on how much you make. Some countries will…

New York actually does have a points system, but since they're tied to the driver's license rather than the car itself, you only get them if you're actually pulled over, not from cameras. Within NYC there's a fair amount of camera enforcement, but comparatively very little by the police directly, so drivers whose licenses might otherwise be suspended via points are still driving around.

The mechanisms for keeping people off the road are also just weaker in the US—I believe the penalties for driving with a suspended license are comparatively lighter, plus if your license is suspended you can often still get a "restricted" license that still lets you drive to work.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#226

Post by metadope »

Youden wrote: post #114
tokai wrote: post #13

An issue with having the legal limit at ~2-5ng/ml is that it makes habitual users be over the limit if they have smoked recently or not.[0] Making the prohibition seem unserious to some, not about safety but about punitive control, and in turn making it matter less if you smoke and drive as you are taking the risk of getting into trouble in any case. The impairments of driving under the influence of alcohol have been…

There was a larger discussion in a previous thread on this topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45494730 Since then, [0] has been published and I think it's worth at least a skim. Since it's quite recent the introduction summarizes some of the most recent research. The things that jump out at me are: - [0]: Habitual users with baseline concentrations above legal limits perform just as well as habitual users wi…

> the number of drivers in accidents with THC in their blood is going up because the number of people with THC in their blood is going up

This.

In just the short time since legalization, recreational use in my immediate vicinity (a small Ohio village, one stop light) has decidedly, undeniably increased.

I offer only an anecdotal observation, but my evening walks around town are now accompanied by a dank potpourri of skunk scents, representing I-don't-know-how-many strains of Sativa...

Indica to me that at least 30% of the population here is puffing.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#227

Post by bookofjoe »

seizethecheese wrote: post #141
Youden wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a larger discussion in a previous thread on this topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45494730 Since then, [0] has been published and I think it's worth at least a skim. Since it's quite recent the introduction summarizes some of the most recent research. The things that jump out at me are: - [0]: Habitual users with baseline concentrations above legal limits perform just as well as habitual users wi…

Sure, but in this study 40% of people had very high THC concentrations. Is it even remotely plausible this is the baseline population level?

DEAD people

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#228

Post by littlestymaar »

spamizbad wrote: post #124
macNchz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a very widespread problem, I think, and probably has a complex mix of causes, but my perception as a NYC runner, cyclist, and driver is that there’s a fairly small percentage of extremely antisocial drivers who we allow to behave badly with relative impunity, which itself moves the Overton window of driving behavior towards aggression/chaos, so to speak. Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in whi…

Yeah I feel like the United States could dramatically improve its road safety if it kept maybe 1-3% of its drivers off the road permanently.

The problem is how do you enforce that though.

The modern world is so cat centric people would rather drive without a license than accept to live without a car. And until you can reliably catch and jail license-less drivers, the bet is worth it for them.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#229

Post by heavyset_go »

bko wrote: post #123
roughly wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s underappreciated the degree to which police and LEO have started behaving like political actors. NYC cops decided to “strike on the job” when the city started changing its stance in the mid-2010s, and in the Bay the cops responded similarly to Prop 47 by effectively not prosecuting shoplifting and other minor crimes anymore. Similarly, the recall of Pamela Price started almost the moment she took office…

There's probably some of this, but I think it's driven by district attorney not prosecuting people. We see people that have 20+ prior arrests. How many times can a cop arrest the same person and do the paperwork if he's not going to be prosecuted? I don't think people are pushing police to arrest more people. > Nearly a third of all shoplifting arrests in New York City last year involved just 327 people, the police s…

I have to deal with the same kind of bugs all day long, doesn't mean I get to refuse to do my job for years at a time until someone I like is voted into office.

Re: Over 40% of deceased drivers in vehicle crashes test positive for THC: Study

#230

Post by iLoveOncall »

dragonwriter wrote: post #39
iLoveOncall wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening the article would have allowed you to see that the average was 30.7 ng/mL, it's in the very first bullet point!

The average (presumably arithmetic mean, though it could technically be any of a wide variety of measures) is not particulatly interesting, the median specifically would be more interesting, as a single figure.

I partially agree, but it is still relevant, because there is a relatively low upper bound to the values possible after which someone would literally be unable to even walk to their car to start driving.

When the average is SO high above the legal limit, and with this constraint that there is an upper bound, it's absolutely relevant.

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