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KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

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Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#221

Post by creatonez »

ottah wrote: post #177
creatonez wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's better done further down the stack If you do it further down the stack, you break accessibility and automation even more... this has been tried. Doesn't work. The end goal is to have actually working Android-like sandboxing rather than some broken firejail crap.

So we don't get the security benefits or accessibility. I'm not sure what is being solved. I'm all for a modern display system, I'm just not convinced the security claims are in anyway justified.

How is preventing apps from spying on each other through the display manager not justified? That's the lowest hanging fruit for desktop sandboxing.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#222

Post by d3Xt3r »

Kholin wrote: post #203

I'm used to play video games on my Linux PC with KDE Plasma, but because some little glitches, I must use X11 session. Not sure if wayland is stable enough for gaming, as I know SteamOS use X11 session as default.

Native Linux games work just fine under Wayland (KDE). Windows games now work too (under Wine/Proton) but isn't ready for prime time yet (although GloriousEggroll's Proton is in a much better shape though thanks to additional Wayland compatibility patches, but it's still technically beta). In saying that, games running in Wayland using XWayland run. mostly okay, but most performance-conscious folks might want to run them using Valve's gamescope microcompositor which usually delivers better performance and as a bonus, packs some nifty features like better HDR support, resolution spoofing and FSR scaling, which means you can upscale games on low-end PCs, or supersample older low-res games on modern PCs.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#223

Post by thway15269037 »

This is nauseating. I hope someone forks KDE into like KDElive or something so I could continue use X11 and not bother with piece of junk of Wayland.

The whole thing is a wrong way for free software and is being pushed by couple big corps out of their interests.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#224

Post by nhumrich »

kanbankaren wrote: post #49
nhumrich wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it does. I have that set right now... Fonts looking terrible seems to only be when using an x app on wayland

How to do it? I am not talking about fractional scaling.

Display settings in kde

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#225

Post by jauntywundrkind »

Gud wrote: post #220
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh sure there's absolutely places where this is true. But there's so many many counter examples. Sway, Niri, Hyprland desktops... Top tier incredible experiences begat as small personal passions. So many incredible tools that have become must-have-daily-drivers for folks, alike this modern shell tools thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41292835 The narrative that everything is corporate and greed is, imo, a…

I disagree. The freedom loving hippie hackers of the 90s you can mostly find in the BSD communities, in my not so humble opinion.

Do you have anything to argue that with? I'm all ears, would be neat to see.

I already mentioned quite an array of projects that I find inspiring. I can't say I know of anything in particular coming from BSD land. ZFS has adherents for sure but there doesn't seem like there's any innovation or creation or downstream net new coming out of that.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#226

Post by theodric »

I sure hope they manage to sort out an interface (or even an off switch) for the compiled-in touchpad gestures in KDE Plasma-Wayland that even override Touchegg, not to mention the font rendering that has been glitchy for literally years. Those are the two main things keeping me on KDE Plasma-X11, and which will see me leave KDE for something else (XFCE? NsCDE? IDFK.) if they remain unresolved after the X11 session is removed.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#227

Post by jmclnx »

cupofjoakim wrote: post #21
jmclnx wrote: post #14

As a fvwm user, if Linux forces Wayland on me, I guess my 30 year use of Linux may be coming to an end. Oh well.

I find your comment a bit funny on multiple levels. "Linux" does not force anything on you right? It's the community that has by and large decided to move to maintaining other solutions. If you still want to use fvwm you can still run it on arch with x11 until x11 is not maintained and the kernel breaks it somehow

Actually it did, well technically it was userland.

Pulseaudio was forced on me because Firefox and a few others need it.

PAM was forced on me because some applications needing it, I believe that was due to kde.

Until v15, slackware had no need for pam or pulseaudio

Now many of us are waiting until systemd is forced on us :(

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#228

Post by simion314 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #153
simion314 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wayland was started primarily by those who were maintaining X11. There is almost nobody who is both capable of working on X11 and wants to work on it. Isn't wayland just soem protocol? so did the ex X11 devs wrote soem specifications and then soem went to GNOME I think the issue is that there is no wayland library that a DE can use so everyone is forced to implement it as part of the DE , so the end result is a lot…

From the wayland readme: > The wayland protocol is essentially only about input handling and buffer management So sending input to clients and managing the buffers needed is what wayland implements. Everything else is either done in the clients (e.g. rendering) or the compositor (pretty much everything else). Note that this is a subset of what X11 did (though rendering had pretty much already moved to the client for…

Yeah, so is not shitty for those claimed X11 devs to drop X11 since is hard and make a spreadsheet with a specification of a subset of X11 , then let other suckers implement it and maybe some other suckers create specifications of the missifng part they refused or were incapable to create. Probably all was exactly as Red Hat planned, if it works for GNOME then the rest is ignored or if it does not work for the rest then is a bonus.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#229

Post by surajrmal »

account42 wrote: post #208
surajrmal wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that desktop Linux is all or nothing in terms of privilege escalation is a design issue, however arguably Wayland gives us the tools to be more granular. Android has a permission system that makes sense can it's display manager is definitely closer in design to Wayland than it is to x11.

Android is the antithesis of an open computing platform and if anything the Linux desktop should use it as an example of what not to do.

Android's sandboxing is doing work for the benefit of the user. This is similar to how your web browser sandboxes JavaScript. Not every app needs access to my location and providing it access shouldn't require root. The Linux ecosystem understands this and it's why there is a large push for sandboxing models in software such as flatpak. Even if you disagree with Android at some level it hard to argue that users benefit from being able to control what the software they run is capable of doing. Otherwise we wouldn't have filesystem permissions to begin with, in the name of "freedom".

Re: KDE Plasma 6.8 Will Go Wayland-Exclusive in Dropping X11 Session Support

#230

Post by lousken »

pabs3 wrote: post #202
lousken wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These apps do have GUI, don't you know? Xwayland doesn't solve their issues. Imagine you have Cisco VPN and you want to connect - you connect and then close the dialog. It is just gone. Why? On wayland no tray icon is shown. Now imagine you have Fortigate VPN and you want to connect - you enter the IP address and click connect but nothing really happens. Why? No confirmation dialog was ever displayed in wayland. Now…

KDE Wayland has tray icons for X11 apps, I use one for Pidgin.

Cannot seem to be able to configure anything Cisco Secure client, doesn't even show in the list of tray apps.
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