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FSF announces Librephone project

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Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#221

Post by NetMageSCW »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #189
kovac wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the right place to start. A free OS will empower developers to implement technical workarounds that could trick these apps into working there. If the OS is tightly controlled, we have no recourse. Even in the worst case scenario, we could use a cheap big-tech-approved phone for these applications (a glorified digital token) and use the free phone for everything else. When there's enough adoption and t…

I've kinda migrated to the worst-case scenario already and it's really not that bad - for my use case. I have an old phone (actually running LineageOS rather than stock) that works as you perfectly describe as a glorified digital token. This device doesn't come with me. There's no banking I need to do, on a day-to-day basis, requiring said token, that has to be done right now or the world will end . It can wait until…

To me that sounds like sacrificing living for a principle and missing the point.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#222

Post by NetMageSCW »

munchlax wrote: post #109
hnuser123456 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I feel like it undermines any effort to make free, featureful applications if the hardware itself can't be trusted.

You can trust hardware and software that's easy to inspect. If you can't be sure what's going on and unable to inspect or debug the hardware and software, how can you trust it's doing what you want? Proprietary hardware and software is already known to work against the interests of the user. Not knowing exactly what's going on is being taken advantage of at large scale. Let's put it this way: if you can choose betwee…

There’s no way I’d trust open source anyone with my health. And I am not sure there is one open known to work well project, let alone a pacemaker that couldn’t possibly be funded in the open source world. What open source hardware is actually more usable than the closed source alternative for most people?

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#223

Post by bigstrat2003 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #27
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #4

Ultimately, I don't think the most important challenge is in binary firmware blobs, but the software which people depend upon to run their lives. What does it matter if you can run a completely free software stack on your phone, if your bank software (or your required government ID, as is looking depressingly likely) requires you to run a Big Tech approved phone OS? Perhaps the FSF can't do much about that, but that…

Use the website. I’ve never seen a bank where a mobile app is the only option for remote access. If my bank did that, I’d switch banks.

To be clear I'm not saying that alternatives don't exist now. But it's a worrying trend that big businesses, and even governments in some cases, are moving away from such alternatives being available. Look for example at the proposed age verification scheme in the EU, where they don't plan to make a version you can use on a desktop (and even for mobile devices require you use a vendor-attested device). Sure, right now it's just for looking at porn. But it seems to me that once that settles, it won't be long (a decade or two) before you start to see government IDs require a similar mobile app. That's the kind of thing I fear happening soon.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#224

Post by torben-friis »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #213
Worldblender wrote: post #175

Finally! It took the FSF long enough to catch up with the overwhelming usage of mobile devices, but it's better late than never. I like that this project is trying to tackle something much more challenging that can't be done with just software: reverse engineering device firmware and binary blobs, the pieces of software that actually make hardware components interface with an OS. Understanding how this stuff function…

I hate to complain, but I can't help but feel this is kind of impossible with the resources available to the people working on it. Reverse engineering a modern phone would take years and years of work from many people, and by the time you have it worked out, the phone is obsolete and very few people still use it. The Apple Silicon macbooks seem a good example. The M1 came out about 5 years ago now and with a whole pr…

One would hope that enough things stay similar between devices that replacing, say, the galaxy s25 paves the way for a far easier implementation of the s26, particularly now that the market is stagnating a bit.

And I’m not knowledgeable about this at all, but intuitively I’d expect apple stuff to be much more customized than the average android phone - they’re famous for vertical integration and owning the end to end process.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#225

Post by BLKNSLVR »

glitchc wrote: post #211
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've kinda migrated to the worst-case scenario already and it's really not that bad - for my use case. I have an old phone (actually running LineageOS rather than stock) that works as you perfectly describe as a glorified digital token. This device doesn't come with me. There's no banking I need to do, on a day-to-day basis, requiring said token, that has to be done right now or the world will end . It can wait until…

It sounds utopian except you still have to pay for a cell plan on said device, no? How else to obtain a phone number for MFA?

No, just connected via wifi. I don't use it outside the house. The MFA token comes via the banking app itself, not via SMS.

If it came by SMS my daily driver would receive it.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#227

Post by anonzzzies »

bsimpson wrote: post #11

Interesting that they chose Android as a base and not one of the desktop-Linux-for-mobile ports like postmarketOS.

Android already is mobile: making it better makes sense. Linux already runs fine on it: termux and things like NOMone desktop combined with allowing virtual memory and keep apps running like some brands (Blackview, Oukitel) allow, you are there a lot of the way. Then Android desktop support (again, many brands have something already but it is now in Android mainline it seems). I use an oukitel rt7 as my main daily driver: it is rooted. It has some quirks and of course is very far from open, but things works, -ish. I would spend far more time on contributing if we had an open choice(or at least working) here that supports the 5g. On other phones/tablets, it is the fingerprint sensors, 3d face camera, but also different 'niche' auxillaries that would get far more attention if you at least can start with something that is (mostly open) and works. If we have coverage for a bunch of devices with everything working, it will be more attractive to work on other/newer ones.

With Linux, you will need, as I have seen on my pine phone, way too much focus on just basic apps which still are not good compared to their android equivalent: spending time there is not spending time on hardware support...

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#228

Post by BLKNSLVR »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #221
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've kinda migrated to the worst-case scenario already and it's really not that bad - for my use case. I have an old phone (actually running LineageOS rather than stock) that works as you perfectly describe as a glorified digital token. This device doesn't come with me. There's no banking I need to do, on a day-to-day basis, requiring said token, that has to be done right now or the world will end . It can wait until…

To me that sounds like sacrificing living for a principle and missing the point.

I hadn't migrated my life to any of the (tiny, possibly zero) convenience improvements that "mobile banking" may offer me, so none of what I've described has been any kind of downgrade in 'living'.

(I don't mean this in a sarcastic way) are you able to make tangible what 'living' I may be sacrificing?

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#229

Post by moi2388 »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #192
criddell wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time is right, but I still don’t think this project can accomplish much because people are generally happy with their phones. That said, the phone market is huge. They could sell enough devices to fund future development which might be good enough even if it doesn’t slow down Apple or Google. At least then there will be a device for those of us who are not happy with the state of things.

> much because people are generally happy with their phones. Talked to many iPhone owners this year? The 17 hardware has a bizarre choice of a camera button / pointless physical change, and IOS 26 is pretty much hated by everyone. I use iPhone, and have happily for years but F if this isn’t the worst OS I can remember. The first downgrade really.

I like the action button and have no issues whatsoever with iOS 26.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#230

Post by aidenn0 »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #189
kovac wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the right place to start. A free OS will empower developers to implement technical workarounds that could trick these apps into working there. If the OS is tightly controlled, we have no recourse. Even in the worst case scenario, we could use a cheap big-tech-approved phone for these applications (a glorified digital token) and use the free phone for everything else. When there's enough adoption and t…

I've kinda migrated to the worst-case scenario already and it's really not that bad - for my use case. I have an old phone (actually running LineageOS rather than stock) that works as you perfectly describe as a glorified digital token. This device doesn't come with me. There's no banking I need to do, on a day-to-day basis, requiring said token, that has to be done right now or the world will end . It can wait until…

I see a trend of banks pushing people off of their websites onto the mobile app.
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