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Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

blog.kilocode.ai

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Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#221

Post by sixhobbits »

I think it's totally OK to experiment with pricing and rapidly iterate. I dropped my ChatGPT sub for Anthropic because it was great value and Claude Code was a 'game changer' product.

I hold them no ill will for rapidly changing pricing models, raising pricing, doing whatever they need to do in what must be a crazy time of finding insane PMF in such a short time

BUT the communication is basically inexcusable IMO. I don't know what I'm paying for, I don't know how much I get, their pricing and product pages have completely different information, they completely hide the fact that Opus use is restricted to the Max plan, they don't tell you how much Opus use you get, their help pages and pricing pages look they were written by an intern and pushed directly to prod. I find out about changes on Twitter/HN before I hear about them from Anthropic.

I love the Claude Code product, but Anthropic the company is definitely nudging me to go back to OpenAI.

This is also why competition is great though - if one company had a monopoly the pricing and UX would be 20x worse.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#222

Post by Aurornis »

sudhirj wrote: post #26

Did the Max plan ever promise unlimited anything? I’m on it, and I remember seeing and paying for 20x, not infinity. There is a case to be made that they sold a multiple and are changing x or rate limiting x differently, but the tone seems different from that.

I can’t find any indication it was ever sold as unlimited.

It always had limits and those limits were not specified as concrete numbers.

It’s amazing how much of the internet outrage is based on the idea that it was unlimited and now it’s not. The main HN thread yesterday was full of comments complaining about losing unlimited access.

It’s so weird to watch people get angry about thinking they’re losing something they never had. Even Anthropic said less than 5% of accounts would even notice the new limits, yet I’ve seen countless comments raging that “everyone must suffer” due to the actions of a few abusing the system.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#223

Post by ileonichwiesz »

londons_explore wrote: post #56
energy123 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and OpenAI have done similar things with their LLM offerings. Gemini Advanced offered 2.5 Pro with nearly unlimited rate limits, then nerfed it to 100/day. OpenAI silently nerfed the maximum context window of reasoning models in their Pro plan. Accompanying the nerf is usually a psy op, like nerfing to 50/day then increasing it to 100/day so the anchoring effect reduces the grievance. It's a smart ploy because…

> the user does face provider switching costs (time and effort), which serves as a mini-moat for status quo provider. When a provider gets memory working well, I expect them to use this to be a huge moat - ie. they won't let you migrate the memories, because rather than being human readable words they'll be unintelligible vectors. I imagine they'll do the same via API so that the network has a memory of all previous…

Is memory all that useful for using these LLMs? I’ve found that I mostly use them for discrete tasks - helping me learn a specific thing, build a specific project, debug a specific piece of code, and once it’s done I’d actually prefer it to forget that thing instead of keeping it around forever.

Hell, “just open a new chat and start over” is an important tool in the toolbox when using these models. I can’t imagine a more frustrating experience than opening a new chat to try something from scratch only for it to reply based on the previous prompt that I messed up.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#224

Post by begueradj »

> Here's how the AI pricing bait-and-switch works:

> You can tell how it's intentional with both OpenAI and Anthropic by how they're intentionally made opaque. I cant see a nice little bar with how much I've used versus have left on the given rate limits

Well, that's a scam. A legal one.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#225

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

epistasis wrote: post #54
energy123 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and OpenAI have done similar things with their LLM offerings. Gemini Advanced offered 2.5 Pro with nearly unlimited rate limits, then nerfed it to 100/day. OpenAI silently nerfed the maximum context window of reasoning models in their Pro plan. Accompanying the nerf is usually a psy op, like nerfing to 50/day then increasing it to 100/day so the anchoring effect reduces the grievance. It's a smart ploy because…

I had been loyal, but am not any longer, so the ploy definitely did not work with me. I guess I'll move on to Gemini now, until I get sick of it. To the degree there is a moat, I do not think it will be effective at keeping people in. I had already been somewhat disillusioned with the AI hype, but now I am also disillusioned with the company who I thought was the best actor in the space. I am happy that there is unli…

Loyalty is for henchmen.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#226

Post by Kim_Bruning »

jennyholzer wrote: post #130
philipp-gayret wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting, in my experience these tools work quite well on larger codebases but it depends how you use them and I haven't really found a counterexample. Do you maybe have a practical example, like a repo you could link that just doesn't work for AI?

GPT tools give piss-poor suggestions when working with the Godot game engine. The Godot engine is an open-source project that has matured significantly since GPT tools hit the market. The GPTs don't know what the new Godot features are, and there is a training gap that I'm not sure Open AI and their competitors will ever be able to overcome. Do you work on web applications? I've found that GPT tools get pretty stupid…

I stopped using GPT for coding long ago, mostly because I use Claude.

With Claude I can even write IC10 code. (with a bit of help and understanding of how Claude works)

IC10 is a fictional, MIPS-like CPU in the game Stationeers. So that's pretty promising for most other things.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#227

Post by shlant »

apwell23 wrote: post #169
bananapub wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anthropic bait and switch what was the bait and switch? where in the launch announcement ( https://www.anthropic.com/news/max-plan ) did they suggest it provided unlimited inference?

so where did 'bad users' come from if users were simply doing what they were allowed to? why is anthropic tweeting about 'naughty users that ruined it for everyone' ?

are you going to answer what the bait and switch was?

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#228

Post by diggan »

ponyous wrote: post #127
danskeren wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claude definitely engage in some shady and illegal behavior. I wanted to see what the annual plan would cost as it was just displaying €170+VAT, and when I clicked the upgrade button to find out (I checked everywhere on the page) then I was automatically subscribed without any confirmation and without ever seeing the final price before the transaction was completed. Turns out that price was €206.50. Getting refunded…

€170 + 21.5% (Irish VAT rate) is €206.55. So not sure what you expected. One complain though in EU B2C companies must show prices with VAT included.

> €170 + 21.5% (Irish VAT rate) is €206.55. So not sure what you expected.

Parent clearly stated they only saw "€170+VAT" and not €206.55, so of course they expected to see €206.55 before the purchase went through. Not sure what anyone else would expect?

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#229

Post by infecto »

conartist6 wrote: post #210
infecto wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your interpretation of the original quote is so far off that I would question your interpretation of the world. Sure novel stuff is being built but the vast majority of code at all sizes of companies has been written before in some iteration. Even for the novel work being done, it’s being surrounded by layers of code that has probably being written before. Are engineers going anywhere? No. But I also don’t think it’s…

But "more productive" is a wording I also take issue with. Code is like law. The goal isn't to have a lot of it. Come to me when by "more productive" you actually mean that the person using the LLM deleted more lines of code than anyone else around them while preserving the stability and power of the system

[flagged]

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#230

Post by [deleted] »

epistasis wrote: post #6

I'm trying to cancel my Claude plan right now, because mid-research I got hit with a one hour time out for the first time, and I realized just how little I need the "expensive" research stuff and just want basic language refinement and some basic augmented knowledge search to get more terms to search the web. And all that basic stuff gets cutoff when you hit some invisible barrier that you have no way of controlling…

[deleted]
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