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Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

americansunlight.substack.com

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Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your parents spoke out of ignorance and resistance towards any sort of change, I'm speaking from years of experience of both trying to use the technology productively, as well as spending a significant portion of my life in the digital world that has been impacted by it. I remember being mesmerized by GPT-3 before ChatGPT was even a thing. The only thing that has been revolutionized over the past few years is the…

Personally, I have three use cases for AI: 1. Image upscaling. I am decorating my house and AI allowed me to get huge prints from tiny shitty pictures. It's not perfect, but it works. 2. Conversational partner. It's a different question whether it's a good or a bad thing, but I can spend hours talking to Claude about things in general. He's expensive though. 3. Learning basics of something. I'm trying to install LED…

I have a buddy, who made me realize how awesome FSR4 is[1]. This is likely one of the best real world uses so far. Granted, that is not LLM, but it is great at that.

[1]https://overclock3d.net/news/software/what-you-need-to-know-... [2]https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/fsr-fidelity-fx-super-resolutio...

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#222
I would say that the fact that all the AI chatbots can’t give the correct answer about the new “Trump Accounts” from the OBBBA Act and also the fact that many news articles about the tax law are incorrect shows that people are using LLMs to write about the law incorrectly and are influenced by the many versions and the way that the final version changed.

The AI definitely could not just read the final bill and give the correct answer. Claude/Gemini/OpenAI all failed at this.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So killing you is not an inherently immoral act and should be justified under someone's ideological standpoint?

The morality of killing, as everything else, is a question of ideology. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers_are_murderers for a famous debate on this subject.

So the answer is yes.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#224
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet actually enabled us to do new things. AI is nothing of that sort. It just generates mediocre statistically-plausible text.

Delusional take. I’m not even heavily invested into AI, just a casual user, and it drastically cut amount of bullshit that I have to deal with in modern computing landscape. Search, summarization, automation. All of this drastically improved with the most superior interface of them all - natural text.

Not OP, but how much of the modern computing landscape bullshit that it cut was introduced in the last 5-10 years?

I think if one were to graph the progress of technology on a graph, the trend line would look pretty linear — except for a massive dip around 2014-2022.

Google searches got better and better until they suddenly started getting worse and worse. Websites started getting better and better until they suddenly got worse. Same goes for content, connection, services, developer experience, prices, etc.

I struggle to see LLMs as a major revolution, or any sort of step function change, but very easily see them as a (temporary) (partial) reset to trendline.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#225
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can give you the relevant facts here that will undermine your confidence in this position, but I'm not talking about ukraine -- i'm talking about LLMs and the base of facts they use; and how people feel about sets of alleged claims. I invite you to reflect that this sensation your feeling is not about the status of facts in the world, its about "morality" as you say -- you have connected, in your mind, a sensation…

> If you want to know what actually happened: the US has been using bribes and threats across eastern europe to turn those states into allies, placing armies and missles in them, for decades. That's an incredible flood of lies. Starting from the top: name one such missile site. You can't, because there never were any foreign "armies and missiles" in Eastern Europe. This narrative is pure fiction. You've picked it up…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_missile_defense_...

Literally everything i said is increadibly easy to google and source. It's all public information, from western sources.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#226
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You continue with the false equivalences trying to smudge reality. And assuming that if I recognise facts, it's because I belong to the tribe that currently recognises those facts too. > The reason you're emotionally disregulated by russian propaganda is because it threatens your identity-based committment to one group. No, it's because it lies to advance the imperialist ambitions of a dictator committing war crimes.…

I can give you the relevant facts here that will undermine your confidence in this position, but I'm not talking about ukraine -- i'm talking about LLMs and the base of facts they use; and how people feel about sets of alleged claims. I invite you to reflect that this sensation your feeling is not about the status of facts in the world, its about "morality" as you say -- you have connected, in your mind, a sensation…

> But in matters of foreign policy, the media is entirely controlled by the state

Frankly, this is an insane opinion to hold. Go check what Le Monde and Le Figaro have to say on Israel, and then shut up.

> If you want to know what actually happened: the US has been using bribes and threats across eastern europe to turn those states into allies, placing armies and missles in them, for decades

You're missing one very, extremely crucial component (which only proves you're lapping up the Russian version of events) - the local population. Go to Poland and the Baltics, and ask them what they think of Russia. Those people (directly for those older than 40, indirectly for those under) suffered under brutal Russian rule. They want American (or frankly, anyone anti-Russian)'s protection from the evil imperialism of Russia.

And Russia's invasion of Ukraine is proving them right. If they didn't have protection (NATO), they would be at the whims of Russia deciding it doesn't like their government or laws or whatever and invading to massacre them. Just ask Georgia and Ukraine.

> Russia has been protesting this for decades too,

Honestly, who asked them?

> They were very afraid they would lose their naval base in crimea (which was always, officially, their land)

I'm sorry? Are you talking about the lease? That doesn't make Crimea, nor Sevastopol, nor the naval port of Sevastopol, "officially, their land". Also, Novorossiysk existing and being expanded proves it was never about Sevastopol. The fact that the Russian Black Sea fleet doesn't exist anymore thanks to Ukrainian attacks makes this even more ridiculous.

> When that happened they took crimea to ensure the US wouldnt gain control of that base

The US has Varna, Constantsa, whatever they want in Turkey. Why would they need Sevastopol and is there any shred of proof they ever wanted it? Also, the Montreux Convention makes a Black Sea base for a non-Black Sea country nearly useless, so your claim makes even less sense.

> all the while arms, soliders etc. were flowing in from western states into the country (against agreements france/germany made, which they violated to do this)

What agreements? And why the hell are you ignoring the russian "separatists" that invaded East Ukraine, up to and shooting down MH17 our of sheer incompetence?

> The original russian plans were just to quickly surround kiev and effect a reigeme change quickly, not to enter a war -- the war was escalated to its current scale in large part by US/UK pressuring ukraine not to regotiate and promising massive arms/aid backing.

What the fuck. I honestly cannot believe you're arguing in good faith, especially after all the tribalism bullshit.

So the war escalated because Ukraine refused to fall to a quick regime change, not because Russia invaded? Are you sure that's in any way logical or factual?

And why the hell do you expect Ukraine to want to surrender its territory and people to be tortured and genocided by Russia?

> About two years ago UA fell into a stalemate/loss posisition, and now it may be to late to negotiate terms with putin not to take a much larger area.

Yes, the country fighting to survive is in a stalemate/loss, not the one that tried and failed, in your words, a quick regime change.

> In part, putin is interested in taking an area of land that puts moscow outside of missle range from ukraine, which is up to about half-way.

What are you talking about?! What missiles, there are ICBMs, and there are shorter to medium range missiles in Poland and the Baltic. Moscow isn't any safer now. In fact it's worse, because Russia's invasion convinced two traditionally neutral countries in Finland and Sweden to join NATO. Not to mention Russia losing its best troops.

As I said, there are facts. Russia invaded Ukraine, and is committing a genocide. Like they invaded Georgia before. Whatever excuses of what sovereign countries did Putin can throw at the wall don't matter in the slightest. And there is delusional intentional muddying of the waters by people like you trying to twist narratives and make Russia's invasion somehow the fault of Ukraine/"the West", and not... Fucking Russia that invaded and is committing a genocide.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#227
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to know what actually happened: the US has been using bribes and threats across eastern europe to turn those states into allies, placing armies and missles in them, for decades. That's an incredible flood of lies. Starting from the top: name one such missile site. You can't, because there never were any foreign "armies and missiles" in Eastern Europe. This narrative is pure fiction. You've picked it up…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_missile_defense_... Literally everything i said is increadibly easy to google and source. It's all public information, from western sources.

That site became operational in 2023. There were no foreign missiles of any kind in Eastern Europe before Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. This is an indisputable fact.

The rest of your narrative is just as flawed. For example, you refer to a civil war in Ukraine, but the European Court of Human Rights found in their lengthy and detailed verdict that no such conflict existed: it was a Russian military operation from the start. There was no genuine separatist movement in Eastern Ukraine prior to Russian invasion; the so-called separatism was manufactured and orchestrated by Russian forces.

And the claim that Eastern Europe had to be bribed into NATO is outright laughable, comparable to arguing that Mexican laborers are being bribed and coerced into emigrating to the US. Total ignorance of the actual well-documented push-pull factors. Pick up the memoirs of any Eastern European president, cabinet minister or notable diplomat from the 1990s or early 2000s, and you'll usually find a chapter or two devoted to the incredible difficulties of securing an invitation to join NATO. Poland even went so far as to threaten to sabotage Clinton's re-election by mobilizing the Polish diaspora in the US if he blocked Poland's entry into NATO.

You don't have to rely solely on "Western sources". Independent Russian sources unaffiliated with Putin's dictatorship tell the same story. Truth is universal.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It might take years until the general consensus is negative about the effects of these tools. The only thing I'm seeing offline are people who already think AI is trash, untrustworthy, and harmful, while also occasionally being convenient when the stakes are extremely low (random search results mostly) or as a fun toy ("Look I'm a ghibli character!") I don't think it'll take long for the masses to sour to AI and th…

I work in Customer Success so I have to screenshare with a decent number of engineers working for customers - startups and BigCos. The number of them who just blindly put shit into an AI prompt is incredible. I don't know if they were better engineers before LLMs? But I just watch them blindly pass flags that don't exist to CLIs and then throw their hands up. I can't imagine it's faster than a (non-LLM) Google search…

Reading this, I'm wondering if I'm suffering "Long Covid"

I've recently had tons of memory and brain fog. I thought it was related to stress, and it's severe enough that I'm on medical leave from work right now

My memory is absolutely terrible

Do you know if it is possible to test or verify if it's COVID related?

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#229
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in fact the goal of Russian style propaganda. You have successfully been targeted. The idea is to spread so much confusion that you just throw up your hands and say, I'm not going to try and figure out what's going on any more. That saps your will to be political, to morally judge actions and support efforts to punish wrongdoers. https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

> The firehose of falsehood, also known as firehosing, is a propaganda technique in which a large number of messages are broadcast rapidly, repetitively, and continuously over multiple channels (like news and social media) without regard for truth or consistency. An outgrowth of Soviet propaganda techniques, the firehose of falsehood is a contemporary model for Russian propaganda under Russian President Vladimir Puti…

Yeah, just check how many alternative versions they provided for MH17 downing.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Exactly this. As soon as enough people get screwed by the ~80% accuracy rate, the whole facade will crumble. Unless AI companies manage to bring the accuracy up 20% in the next year, by either limiting scope or finding new methods, it will crumble. That kind of accuracy gain isn't happening with LLMs alone (ie foundational models).

Charitably, I don’t understand what those like you mean by the “whole facade” and why you use these old machine learning metrics like “accuracy rate” to assess what’s going on. Facade implies that the unprecedented and still exponential organic uptake of GPT (again see the actual data I linked earlier from Mary Meeker) is just a hype-generated fad, rather than people finding it actually useful to whatever end. Indeed…

Time will tell.
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