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Framework Laptop 12 review

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#221

Post by bradfa »

hokumguru wrote: post #194
mmcnl wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand the repairability appeal of the Framework. Hasn't that already been a selling point for the business line laptops of HP, Lenovo and Dell for years? They all offer premium business laptops with removable RAM, SSD and battery and very detailed maintenance guides. Part availability is good too.

What’s the current procedure for getting HP or Lenovo or Dell to sell you replacement monitor? What about just a chassis if you drop yours and get a dent? Even a spare battery? If you’re not buying one of their premium business laptops, you’re kind of SOL. How about in five years from now when all of that is still fine, but you just want to replace the mainboard. What about when framework comes out with upgrades down…

Dell Latitude and Lenovo Thinkpad parts are pretty easy to come by on eBay. I’ve bought a handful of different parts from drive caddies, OEM batteries, hinge assemblies, keyboards, and trackpads without much drama. Dell Latitude service manuals are top notch with detailed procedures and diagrams. Dell has a decent track record of maintaining their firmware for a reasonable number of years after release.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#222

Post by XorNot »

paldepind2 wrote: post #182
benrutter wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is my experience with a Fairphone 4. It seemed pricey initially, but I have saved sooo much by being able to carry out simple repairs.

How often do you break your phone that you've save sooo much? Mine is at least 2 years older (I got it 2 years before the Fairphone 4 was released) and I've spend 0$ dollars repairing it.

In a laptop context the advent of soldered on RAM and SSDs has made this a more significant issue though.

That 1TB I thought was enough might not be, and suddenly I need to buy a whole new machine to upgrade.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#223

Post by lillecarl »

linsomniac wrote: post #190
atrus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

I've kept the same PSU for two motherboards and the same chassis for four motherboards. I've kept my main monitor across two motherboards and my second monitor across three motherboards.

If you're a Framework customer it's not entirely unlikely you buy a case for your older mobo and now you have a power efficient home-server (or something) at your disposal.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#224

Post by Tijdreiziger »

chickensong wrote: post #219
0000000000100 wrote: post #202

Our company bought about 4-5 Framework 13s, and boy were they a bad experience. All sorts of driver issues, random crashes, USB ports not working right, etc. Just about all of them had some kind of issue, which is really fun when your PM has a USB port not work randomly. Ended up going back to HP laptops, 30% cheaper for the same specs and they just work consistently. Would love to hear a hobbyist perspective, Framew…

The first run of Frameworks had a weak hinge on the monitor, which isn't an uncommon problem with other brands of laptop. With Framework, you can easily replace the hinge, but that's unlikely with most other brands, and you'll need to pay to replace the entire monitor. Another example, I didn't need an HDMI port anymore, and wanted an extra USB-C instead. Just a few bucks to swap with Framework, but impossible with o…

It seems that the swappable modules would also make it easy for someone to install e.g. a keylogger, though.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#225

Post by zapzupnz »

hu3 wrote: post #184
nico_h wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have confused the lower/higher is better? I think the Air is missing from a few charts though.

No, but perhaps you may have. Please take a look: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Frame... https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Frame... https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Frame... And for battery life: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/Frame...

I think the person to whom you're replying may not have realised you're talking about one of the Framework 13s, not the Framework 12.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#226

Post by square_usual »

throwaway63467 wrote: post #71
criddell wrote: post #14

Is it unreasonable to think Framework should be able to make a laptop competitive with the 5 years old MacBook Air M1? I get that Framework focuses on making repairable machines, but does that prevent them from making a fanless, hi dpi, good performing, long battery life machine? I wouldn’t expect parity with an M4 machine, but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to think they should be competitive with the much older M1. I…

Lenovo X9 Aura is pretty great. 80 Wh battery which gives you 6-10 hours of usage, 15’’ 120 Hz 3k OLED screen, new 3 nm Intel CPUs. Only half as fast as my M4 but less than one third the price, with an upgradable SSD and a customer-replaceable battery. My only gripes are the soldered 32 GB of RAM and that they only put one USB C connector on each side, otherwise a tremendously good machine for that price. I think it…

What? You can get an M4 MacBook Air with 32 GB of RAM for $1400, and from googling the X9 Aura is the same price. How is that "less than one third the price"?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#227

Post by paxys »

linsomniac wrote: post #190
atrus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

You can't upgrade the hard drive or RAM on modern laptops either.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#228

Post by paxys »

atrus wrote: post #148
nucleardog wrote: post #130

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

And it isn't just about upgrading for better specs. I'd wager the majority of people's laptop replacement cycle is triggerd by a single part dying (screen, hard disk, keyboard, hinges, PSU), the device being out of warranty, and the store quoting more for the fix than a new device would cost. Being able to purchase the $50 part online and do the repair yourself will probably save the average person thousands over a 3-5 year span.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#229

Post by pythonaut_16 »

0000000000100 wrote: post #202

Our company bought about 4-5 Framework 13s, and boy were they a bad experience. All sorts of driver issues, random crashes, USB ports not working right, etc. Just about all of them had some kind of issue, which is really fun when your PM has a USB port not work randomly. Ended up going back to HP laptops, 30% cheaper for the same specs and they just work consistently. Would love to hear a hobbyist perspective, Framew…

I have one as a developer laptop running Linux. It works fine, battery life is bad. (On AMD 7640U Framework 13).

I currently couldn't recommend them to anyone except users (developers?) who want to run Linux specifically. Otherwise a Macbook is going to be a much better computer at a better value, or just get any boring Windows laptop provider.

Pros compared to Macbook: - Runs Linux - amd64 makes some legacy software work easier - Easy and commodity prices to get 96gb of RAM and 2tb SSD.

Macbook pros: - Massively better battery life - Snappier/faster in general usage - Much more polished than Linux

I evaluated Thinkpads as well but trying to find one with the right configuration that wasn't too expensive or worse than the Framework was pretty hard.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#230

Post by badc0ffee »

chrismorgan wrote: post #38
perching_aix wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but does that prevent them from making a (...) hi dpi (...) machine? It pretty much has that though? 1920x1200 at 12.2" is 185.59 PPI. Standard DPI (PPI) is 96. HiDPI to my knowledge isn't properly defined, but the usual convention is either double that or just more than that - the latter criteria this display definitely clears, and the former (192 PPI) is super super close, to the extent that I'd call it cleared f…

The baseline of 96ppi is nominal only. Form factor and intended distance from screen matters a lot. In the laptop form factor, you’re aiming for more like 110–125 as 1×. Apple laptops range from 221–254ppi as 2×. 186ppi is designed for 1.5×, an uncomfortable space that makes perfection difficult-to-impossible, yet seems to have become unreasonably popular, given how poorly everything but Windows tends to handle it. (…

> Apple doesn’t support it at all

Apple's HiDPI is "2x scaled" on Retina and >= 4k displays. But you can still pick a virtual resolution that isn't exactly 0.5x your display's native resolution, and it will look great.

For example my external monitor is 3840x2160, and has a default virtual resolution of "1920x1080", but I run it at "2304x1296". My 14" MBP display has a default virtual resolution of "1512x982", but I run it at "1352x878". Neither looks scaled, neither has a slow display, weird fonts or weird graphics. I never even really think about it. In other words, light years beyond the experience on Ubuntu and on Windows.

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