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Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

mistral.ai

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Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#221

Post by adventured »

louiskottmann wrote: post #215
epolanski wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jm2c but I feel conflicted about this arms race. You can be 6/12 months later, and have not burned tens of billions compared to the best in class, I see it an engineering win. I absolutely understand those that say "yeah, but customers will only use the best", I see it, but is market share of forever money losing businesses that valuable?

Indeed, and with the technology plateau-ing, being 6-12 months late with less debt is just long term thinking. Also, Europe being in the race is a big deal for consumers.

Why would the debt matter when you have $60 billion in ad revenue and are generating $20 billion in op income? That's OpenAI 5-7 years from now, if they're able to maintain their position with consumers. Once they attach an ad product their margins will rapidly soar due to the comparatively low cost of the ad segment.

The technology is closer to a decade from seeing a plateau for the large general models. GPT o3 is significantly beyond o1 (much less 3.5 which was just Nov 2022). Claude 4 is significantly beyond 3.5. They're not subtle improvements. And most likely there will be a splintering of specialization that will see huge leaps outside the large general models. The radical leap in coding capabilities over the past 12-18 months is just an early example of how that will work, and it will affect every segment of human endeavour.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#222

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

umbra07 wrote: post #189
msgodel wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They shouldn't be forcing people to use patented Qualcomm technology to access cellular networks either but here we are. Realistically Apple's connector adds no value and if they want to sell into markets like the EU they need to cut that kind of thing out.

> Realistically Apple's connector adds no value Like I said, usb-c is a regression from lightning in multiple ways. * Lightning is easier to plug in. * Lightning is a physically smaller connector. * USB-C is a much more mechanically complex port. Instead of a boss in a slot, you have a boss with a slot plugging into a slot in a boss. There was so much buzz around Apple no longer including a wall wort with its phones,…

Having owned both lighting and USB-C iPhones/iPads, I prefer the USB-C experience, but neither were that bad.

My personal biggest gripe with lightning was that the spring contacts were in the port instead of the cable, and when they wore out you had to replace the phone instead of the cable. The lightning port was not replaceable. In practice I may end up breaking more USB-C ports, we'll see.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#223

Post by fzzzy »

gavi wrote: post #218
danielhanchen wrote: post #3

I made some GGUFs for those interested in running them at https://huggingface.co/unsloth/Magistral-Small-2506-GGUF ollama run hf.co/unsloth/Magistral-Small-2506-GGUF:UD-Q4_K_XL or ./llama.cpp/llama-cli -hf unsloth/Magistral-Small-2506-GGUF:UD-Q4_K_XL --jinja --temp 0.7 --top-k -1 --top-p 0.95 -ngl 99 Please use --jinja for llama.cpp and use temperature = 0.7, top-p 0.95! Also best to increase Ollama's context length…

too much thinking https://gist.github.com/gavi/b9985f730f5deefe49b6a28e5569d46...

My impression from running the first R1 release locally was that it also does too much thinking.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#224

Post by psalaun »

greenavocado wrote: post #210
psalaun wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in government; I've worked 50+ hours weeks working for the healthcare branch of the providence state, with a classic 39h/w contract. No compensation of any sort, despite having timesheets. There are a lot of myths about French worker. Our lifelong worked hours is not exceptional; our productivity is also not exceptional.

Pointless suffering. Report violations to the CSE, Médecin du Travail, and Inspection du Travail.

It was a choice, I loved my job there. I had more exciting projects than most of my friends in the private sector!

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#225

Post by adventured »

hmottestad wrote: post #187
pu_pe wrote: post #11

Benchmarks suggest this model loses to Deepseek-R1 in every one-shot comparison. Considering they were likely not even pitting it against the newer R1 version (no mention of that in the article) and at more than double the cost, this looks like the best AI company in the EU is struggling to keep up with the state-of-the-art.

With how amazing the first R1 model was and how little compute they needed to create it, I'm really wondering how the new R1 model isn't beating o3 and 2.5 Pro on every single benchmark. Magistral Small is only 24B and scores 70.7% on AIME2024 while the 32B distill of R1 scores 72.6%. And with majority voting @64 the Magistral Small manages 83.3%, which is better than the full R1. Since I can run a 24B model on a reg…

It's because DeepSeek was a fast copy. That was the easy part and it's why they didn't have to use so much compute to get near the top. Going well beyond o3 or 2.5 Pro is drastically more expensive than fast copy. China's cultural approach to building substantial things produces this sort of outcome regularly, you see the same approach in automobiles, planes, Internet services, industrial machinery, military, et al. Innovation is very expensive and time consuming, fast copy is more often very inexpensive and rapid. 85% good enough is often good enough, that additional 10-15% is comically expensive and difficult as you climb.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#226

Post by adventured »

8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #94
derektank wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, perhaps most relevantly, the regulatory environment the people are working in. French people working in America are probably more productive than French people working in France (if for no other reason because they probably work more hours in America than France).

Are we sure more time butt in office equates to more productivity?

$89,000 GDP per capita vs $46,000 rather proves the point about productivity per butt. US office workers are extraordinarily productive in terms of what their work generates (thanks to numerous well understood things like the outsized US scaling abilities). Measuring beyond that is very difficult due to the variance of every business.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#227

Post by alister »

As a quick test of logical reasoning and basic Wikipedia-level knowledge, I asked Mistral AI the following question:

A Brazilian citizen is flying from Sao Paulo to Paris, with a connection in Lisbon. Does he need to clear immigration in Lisbon or in Paris or in both cities or in neither city?

Mistral AI said that "immigration control will only be cleared in Paris," which I think is wrong.

After I pointed it to the Wikipedia article on this topic[1], it corrected itself to say that "immigration control will be cleared in Lisbon, the first point of entry into the Schengen Area."

I tried the same question with Meta AI (Llama 4) and it did much worse: It said that the traveler "wouldn't need to clear immigration in either Lisbon or Paris, given the flight connections are within the Schengen Area", which is completely incorrect.

I'd be interested to hear if other LLMs give a correct answer.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area#Air_travel

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#228

Post by aDyslecticCrow »

adventured wrote: post #221
louiskottmann wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and with the technology plateau-ing, being 6-12 months late with less debt is just long term thinking. Also, Europe being in the race is a big deal for consumers.

Why would the debt matter when you have $60 billion in ad revenue and are generating $20 billion in op income? That's OpenAI 5-7 years from now, if they're able to maintain their position with consumers. Once they attach an ad product their margins will rapidly soar due to the comparatively low cost of the ad segment. The technology is closer to a decade from seeing a plateau for the large general models. GPT o3 is s…

> Once they attach an ad product their margins will rapidly soar due to the comparatively low cost of the ad segment.

They're burning through computers and capital. No amount of advertising could cover the cost of training or even running these models. The massive subscription costs we've started seeing are just a small glimpse into the money they are burning through.

They will NOT make a profit using the current methods unless the models become at least 10 times more efficient than they are now. At which point can Europe adapt to the innovation without much cost.

It's an arms race to see who can burn the most money the fastest, while selling the result for as little as possible. When they need to start making money, it will all come crashing down.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#229

Post by olddustytrail »

__loam wrote: post #78
NitpickLawyer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That paper was flawed in many ways, but it had a catchy name so lots of 'fluencers and media pounced on it and slopped some content based on the title alone. Chances are it will be relegated to the blooper section of LLM papers, just like that "training on LLM outputs leads to model collapse" paper was...

Sorry this has nothing to do with the point you're making but I've literally never seen anyone use the word 'fluencers in place of influencers lol.

Me neither and it's not much shorter. I think fluzies could work better.

Re: Magistral — the first reasoning model by Mistral AI

#230

Post by ACCount36 »

louiskottmann wrote: post #215
epolanski wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jm2c but I feel conflicted about this arms race. You can be 6/12 months later, and have not burned tens of billions compared to the best in class, I see it an engineering win. I absolutely understand those that say "yeah, but customers will only use the best", I see it, but is market share of forever money losing businesses that valuable?

Indeed, and with the technology plateau-ing, being 6-12 months late with less debt is just long term thinking. Also, Europe being in the race is a big deal for consumers.

>with the technology plateau-ing

People were claiming that since year 2022. Where's the plateau?

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