This is a bit f'd, Quora • Hacker News Board

Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#221

Post by wpietri » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 5:25 PM UTC

genwin wrote: post #182

wpietri wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your perspective, but I think Facebook is basically correct in the long term. Privacy is basically a historical accident belonging to the few hundred years in the west where transportation tech got ahead of information technology. An excellent read on the topic is David Brin's "The Transparent Hand". He basically makes the argument that we face one of two futures: either all of us know everybody's business or a…

More likely it'll be the small elite (who stay private) maximizing profits using the info that the vast majority made public. Those who make their "private" info public will likely on average pay higher interest & insurance rates, have smaller salaries after taking longer to find jobs, etc.

Honestly, that's one of the better outcomes. Imagine an oligarchy where the elite knows your genetic profile, your social activity, your daily habits, and your deviations from normal behavior. They may know before you do when you're starting to get restive, and will certainly be able to defuse or destroy any resistance.

A fun novel relating to this is Daniel Suarez's "Kill Decision".

Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#222

Post by lotharbot » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 5:31 PM UTC

koglerjs wrote: post #159

ahelwer wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't said anything concrete enough to attack. Just a bunch of stuff about "the telling of the truth", whatever that's supposed to mean. I hold that when you consider both subject matter and the community together, there are things which should not be discussed and analyzed. The reddit thread in question is an example. The community clearly demonstrated it was not equipped with the tools to handle that discussi…

Are you saying you can't comprehend what I was trying to mean? Your second paragraph is exactly the attitude that I despise. I don't care what your intent is: the effect is you want to hide what people really think. There are no tools to handle that discussion. And that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. And that means we'll find the tools for it. Clueless. edit: I feel like I'm in the midst of the argument that HN do…

> "I will endure downvote after downvote unto hellban in order to defy our stodginess."

You made some good points in the "nobody wants to read your shit" thread. You should apply those insights to your own posts here.

We signal, with downvotes and hellbans, the kind of shit we don't want to read. Some of your earlier posts in this thread were merely disagreeable, but you've descended into full-on trolling. Please don't do that.

Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#223

Post by lucian303 » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 5:47 PM UTC

You don't pay for it, thus you're the product, not the consumer. The product doesn't get what it wants. Not how things work.

Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#224

Post by lucian303 » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 5:48 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #91

I can't help bit feel vindicated by moves like this because they're a sign that Quora isn't the Next Big Thing that many inside the bubble that is Silicon Valley seemed to think it is (eg [1]). Actually Quora is better than that (for me) in that it's a double hit on the hype on both Q&A and social. These kinds of moves: - requiring login to view content; - partially obscuring content on Google results to maximize sig…

It is largely irrelevant.

Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#225

Post by ChrisNorstrom » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 5:54 PM UTC

ceol wrote: post #112

koglerjs wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Actually Quora is better than that (for me) in that it's a double hit on the hype on both Q&A and social. well said. fuck Quora, as the OP suggested. The best place to ask questions from the article like "What is the best way to hide an affair"--as if Quora could ever manage an honest discussion like that--is reddit. Of course, you couldn't ask the question just like that. It'd have to be more genuine, a post on /r/…

That rapist thread in /r/AskReddit was, next to the time a poor girl was harassed due to a user thinking she faked her assault story, the worst thing I've ever seen on reddit. The direct responses were exactly what the OP had asked, but the comment replies by users were flooded with rape apology and victim blaming. In one instance, a rapist had to tell people to stop apologizing for him because he knew he was an actu…

Ceol is right. I know Reddit is HUGE and is comprised of many different subreddits and today's Reddit is astronomically different from what it was 3 years ago when I left. But many male Redditors have deep seeded misogyny and they're in denial. Because of their aggressiveness their attitude used to affect a lot of site, NOT just their subreddit. I've seen female OPs ridiculed and downvoted off the front page while male OPs with the same conversation & stance would get upvoted. This is especially true for cheat stories, relationship problems, and male POV vs female POV style posts.

Remember when Bioware writer Jennifer Hepler got ganged up on by internet users and threatened with death and rape, called on her home phone and harassed, because of something she said about games 5 years earlier? That was Reddit's gaming forum. They ganged up on her because they felt Mass Effect 2 was apparently written wrong and she was the plague and scum that did it. That's just a tiny little fraction of the sexist shit Redditors can conjure up.

Back when I was a Reddit addict I'd see so many sexist posts. Not questionably sexist. Evidently sexist. When men would post "my girlfriend cheated on me" stories the Redditors would upvote and comfort the guy, give him their complete emotional support. They'd upvote the cheat stories to the front page when it was a man being cheated on. When it was a woman.... Naturally, Redditors would sympathize with the cheating boyfriend and ask the female OP if she did anything wrong. Revenge stories about men getting back at women were loved and would spend DAYS being on the front page from all the upvotes. Male Redditors would chime in with instructions on how to get the best revenge.

Anytime a woman would ask about what to do about her cheating boyfriend, they'd reply with "talk to him about it" and "maybe its something that you did". So sympathizing with rapists and blaming the victim is just up their alley.

And don't get me started on the Mens Rights subreddit whose posts would spill over onto the front page every other day. Those guys were drowning in their own testosterone. It's like they were angry that they're slaves to pussy, but rather than blame nature or themselves (their balls) they just blamed women for their problems. Don't know if it got better or worst, I'd rather not visit the subreddit at all.

After achieving mainstream popularity a few years ago the front page is now all memes and cats and all that sexist nonsense is isolated to it's subreddit. I would consider the memes the lesser of two evils.

Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#226

Post by its_so_on » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 5:57 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #59

its_so_on wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blhack, I ran across this comment of yours - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4377315 - and certainly appreciate your privacy concerns. A healthy private life is undoubtedly everyone's personal choice. At the same time, HackerNews is YCombinator's tech blog, and highly visible. Frankly, your opinion comes off as somewhat paranoid. It's not that it isn't justified, I'm not saying that one way or another, but I woul…

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Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#227

Post by philwelch » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 6:25 PM UTC

Tycho wrote: post #150

Johngibb wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have asked a bunch of questions on HN, and, like, actually gotten really good answers to them. Same with stackoverflow. Just because there are people on quora that answer questions well doesn't mean that they don't partake in questionable business practices and that you can find the answers elsewhere.

HN is not a Q&A site, neither is Reddit. StackOvereflow is focussed on narrow topics (and moderated by Nazis). That leaves plenty of room for a site like Quora which is oriented around finding answers to questions you have on any serious topic. Other sites might have better matereial when you do a direct comparison, but that's like saying a book of essays by Richard Feynman is always more interesting than looking the…

> HN is not a Q&A site, neither is Reddit.

That hardly seems necessary. Any generalized discussion site can answer Q&A, since that's just a discussion format. That isn't true the other way around, hence the StackOverflow nazis.

Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#228

Post by genwin » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 6:43 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #221

genwin wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely it'll be the small elite (who stay private) maximizing profits using the info that the vast majority made public. Those who make their "private" info public will likely on average pay higher interest & insurance rates, have smaller salaries after taking longer to find jobs, etc.

Honestly, that's one of the better outcomes. Imagine an oligarchy where the elite knows your genetic profile, your social activity, your daily habits, and your deviations from normal behavior. They may know before you do when you're starting to get restive, and will certainly be able to defuse or destroy any resistance. A fun novel relating to this is Daniel Suarez's "Kill Decision".

Thanks for the recommend! The book 1984 also paints a world like that.

Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#229

Post by thomasz » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 8:26 PM UTC

koglerjs wrote: post #179

ahelwer wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I suppose you would describe yourself as being absolutely in favor of unrestricted free speech. Nothing is off-limits. All shall be discussed. Now, what happens when you mix this attitude with a self-moderating system? There will be no moderation at all. Every and any topic is able to be discussed by anyone. The fringe opinions mobilize and are given a powerful soapbox, and so horrible becomes the new normal. You…

>So, I suppose you would describe yourself as being absolutely in favor of unrestricted free speech. Nothing is off-limits. All shall be discussed. Yup. >Now, what happens when you mix this attitude with a self-moderating system? /r/AskScience You can't make horrible opinions less horrible by making them invisible.

Askscience is heavily moderated.

Re: This is a bit f'd, Quora

#230

Post by Karunamon » Tue, Aug 14, 2012, 8:51 PM UTC

illuminate wrote: post #216

Karunamon wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have much to add other than "yeah, that", and the fact that the breathless cry of "zOMG PRIVACY!" and the sanctimonious hand wringing about "Well what about people who don't want (some dangerous person) to know what they're doing" is starting to get irritatingly old. There are a few people for various reasons who should stay the hell away from social media in all its forms. Okay, granted. For me, I don't see…

" the breathless cry of "zOMG PRIVACY!" and the sanctimonious hand wringing about "Well what about people who don't want (some dangerous person) to know what they're doing" is starting to get irritatingly old." Who are you to tell any person that they're misprioritizing their personal information and the value of privacy? YOU can do whatever you want, publish it to the ends of the earth, however we want this to be a…

>Who are you to tell any person that they're misprioritizing their personal information and the value of privacy?

As soon as someone puts their thoughts out on the internet for everyone to read, they become valid targets for critical discussion. So in short, "I am" just like any other commenter on any other blog. Who are you to, with such righteous indignation, tell me what I can and cannot talk about?

>You can't wrap your head around why someone would not wish to share these things and offer an argument from ignorance

Ah, stop. I said it was getting old. Nothing more. There was no "argument" here. Exasperation, not an attempt to convince anyone. Besides, usually you don't convince people of anything by telling them you're sick of hearing their opinion.

I am quite willing to be convinced though - I just haven't had anyone tell me why I should care that advertisers target me. At least, not in any way that wasn't based squarely on a slippery slope fallacy straight into a dystopian future that wouldn't look out of place in a Stephenson novel.

So please, enlighten me. I am genuinely curious why this seems to bug so many people so deeply.