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Orbit by Mozilla

orbitbymozilla.com

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Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#221

Post by mschild »

rtpg wrote: post #193
mentalgear wrote: post #181

I'm reading a lot of criticism here, some I understand, but honestly, this sounds pretty good for a free LLM service: "Orbit doesn't require account creation or save your session data." Maybe we shouldn't be too critical of Mozilla for providing a privacy-first LLM service - for free. The other big privacy-first LLM provider is Apple, which requires users to have their devices/subscriptions to use, and definitely use…

> Maybe we shouldn't be too critical of Mozilla for providing a privacy-first LLM service - for free. The other big privacy-first LLM provider is Apple, which requires users to have their devices/subscriptions to use, and definitely uses advanced telemetry by default. There is a very fundamental critique here: a service being offered for free like this is being subsidized, messing with the general market dynamics tha…

Fair enough. However, first of all, it's still in beta. They’re likely using it to gather feedback on its performance. Also, there’s nothing on the site that says it will remain free. Considering Mozilla has introduced paid services like VPN, and given the cost of running LLMs, it’s unlikely it will stay free.

Also consider that some free use, for example 5 summaries per hour or whatever, is a pretty basic offer for any kind of software, not just LLMs.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#223

Post by bayindirh »

bowsamic wrote: post #220
bayindirh wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can disable all its telemetry, and change my search engine. It becomes a box which receives but never emits. Plus, I don't use its Mozilla build, but its Debian build.

Sure but you specifically said “funded by” and Gecko dev is funded almost entirely by Google

How many daily-driveable browser engines we have today?

    - Blink: Chromium and their friends.
    - Webkit: Safari specific, on iOS and macOS only.
    - Gecko: Firefox and its a few forks.
First two are forks of KHTML, which is dead by the end of KDE5 era.

So? You have a cross platform evil and lesser evil (by judging the development financing). What you do?

On the other hand, I don't finance Google by using the browser itself, so that's another plus in my book.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#225

Post by ksenzee »

IshKebab wrote: post #205
silisili wrote: post #168

Mozilla will spend any amount it takes to do anything but build a better browser.

Their browser is fine. But so is Chrome, and Chrome wins by default because it's installed by default on Android and Android really pushes you to it. Once you're using Chrome on Android and have all your passwords saved there, Firefox is a difficult sell. I can't think of a single Firefox feature that's better than "I don't have to faff around with passwords". Maybe if they allowed adblock on mobile, but last I check…

I agree with your logic but I think the facts lead to the opposite conclusion, because uBlock Origin is now both easy and painless to use with Firefox on Android. That's why every Android user should now have Firefox installed. And if you're using Firefox on Android, why not use it on desktop too with Firefox Sync? I don't actually know how good the Firefox password manager is (I use 1Password) but it's on both desktop and mobile, just like Chrome's is. And it's really nice to send tabs back and forth from mobile to desktop.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#226

Post by wobfan »

neilv wrote: post #43
BadHumans wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any revelation that Google is siphoning data out of other companies GCP instances would be so earth-shattering I don't think it is happening.

Even on the linked page, Mozilla is arguably being evasive about the fact that they're sending the data out the Internet at all. We don't know whether this is another time that Mozilla execs have sold out users, or shipped something half-baked and vulnerable. I'm not saying they're leaking the data (by agreement, or negligence), but Mozilla has mediocre credibility in recent years, and there's nothing on this page th…

> I'm not saying they're leaking the data (by agreement, or negligence), but Mozilla has mediocre credibility in recent years, and there's nothing on this page that improves that reputation.

I think you read too much HN and aren’t aware about all the stuff going on in the background at Mozilla.

If there’s one company I would trust, it would be them. Their marketing has been mediocre and I’m not 100% sure about if I like their future decisions, but I trust them 100%.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#227

Post by caoilte »

mentalgear wrote: post #197
rtpg wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe we shouldn't be too critical of Mozilla for providing a privacy-first LLM service - for free. The other big privacy-first LLM provider is Apple, which requires users to have their devices/subscriptions to use, and definitely uses advanced telemetry by default. There is a very fundamental critique here: a service being offered for free like this is being subsidized, messing with the general market dynamics tha…

I do agree with your sentiment on cost, especially regarding exploding co2 emissions for LLMs, but it sounds like you're putting the blame mostly on Mozilla for what is market dynamics in capitalism, with most of the contenders being heavily VC-funded, and where Mozilla maybe just tries to signal that "AI" can be done responsibly also. If they don't try, people will blame them for "being late to the game/out of touch…

people will blame anyone for anything.

mozilla is a non-profit so doesn't need to respond to market signals.

it would do a lot more and a lot more sustainably if it focused on the core mission of its browser.

but these costly "big swings" justify outrageous compensation packages for its executives and so it lets its browser wither.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#228

Post by JonChesterfield »

BadHumans wrote: post #14
neilv wrote: post #7

Huge heading: > Commitment to privacy Buried as the last sentence in a collapsed box at the bottom of the page: > For the current version, we are using a Mistral LLM (Mistral 7B) hosted within Mozilla’s GCP instance. And why is it "...Mozilla's GCP instance", not "We quietly send all your data to Google servers, and everyone pinkie-swears that's totally privacy-respecting"?

Any revelation that Google is siphoning data out of other companies GCP instances would be so earth-shattering I don't think it is happening.

Is there a profit to Google digging around in the information people send them?

Are there long and vague terms of service documents backed by a pile of lawyers?

There you go, incentive and means. I'm not even confident companies would see that as a problem when it was raised with them directly, in much the same way that Microsoft hosting all the corporate email seems to be just fine.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#229

Post by wongarsu »

IshKebab wrote: post #205
silisili wrote: post #168

Mozilla will spend any amount it takes to do anything but build a better browser.

Their browser is fine. But so is Chrome, and Chrome wins by default because it's installed by default on Android and Android really pushes you to it. Once you're using Chrome on Android and have all your passwords saved there, Firefox is a difficult sell. I can't think of a single Firefox feature that's better than "I don't have to faff around with passwords". Maybe if they allowed adblock on mobile, but last I check…

To me, firefox is a much easier sell on mobile. I use it religiously on mobile because of ad blocking, while on desktop I switch between Chrome, Firefox, Edge and Opera without feeling too much of a difference
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