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Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

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Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#221

Post by throwaway74354 »

mkj wrote: post #168
throwaway74354 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These usually get neither an LED nor a switch Lots of ThinkPads have «Microphone is muted» LED. Not exactly what's requested (and is bound to a software mute/unmute shortcut), but it's better than nothing regarding state of machine being observable with a quick glance.

That one seems to be software controlled. I'm fairly sure I remember having the mic working with the mute LED lit, which was confusing. That was on a x1 carbon gen9.

Correct, its usefulness depends on software working as expected (and not being tampered with)

    echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/devices/platform/thinkpad_acpi/leds/platform\:\:micmute/brightness
is enough to turn the LED on without muting the mic.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#222

Post by samatman »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #207
sbarre wrote: post #3

I thought the whole point of these camera LEDs was to have them wired to/through the power to the camera, so they are always on when the camera is getting power, no matter what. Having the LED control exposed through the firmware completely defeats this.

> I thought the whole point of these camera LEDs was to have them wired to/through the power to the camera, so they are always on when the camera is getting power, no matter what. This definitely happened too on Mac in the past, then they went in damage control mode. Not only had Apple access to turn off the LED while the camera was filming, but there was also a "tiny" company no-one had ever heard off that happened…

I believe every paragraph of this besides the personal anecdote is completely made up. Care to change my mind?

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#224

Post by xyst »

Could be useful, if this was 2000s. These days don’t even need to hack the victim. They proudly give it all up via social media. Talk to a person long enough and they will spill every detail about their life. Routine, job, social life, deepest desires.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#226

Post by bluSCALE4 »

542458 wrote: post #57
epistasis wrote: post #17

I can see why some people might be concerned about the camera, but I'm far more concerned by the microphone. There's far more sensitive and actionable information that can be gathered from me that way! I'm glad that macOS started putting a light in the menubar when the microphone is in use, but I'd prefer to have unhackable hardware for that instead.

FWIW, modern Macbooks also hardware disable the mic when the lid is closed. https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/...

I just tested this with Voice Memo and can confirm it works at least in that scenario. The recording didn't stop, the mic was just disconnected then reconnected when lid was opened. Using Amphetamine w/ script installed on M1.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#227

Post by pjot »

bluSCALE4 wrote: post #226
542458 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, modern Macbooks also hardware disable the mic when the lid is closed. https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/...

I just tested this with Voice Memo and can confirm it works at least in that scenario. The recording didn't stop, the mic was just disconnected then reconnected when lid was opened. Using Amphetamine w/ script installed on M1.

Just to point it out, but there’s a native terminal command `caffeinate` that does the same as Amphetamine.

I use the -disu flags

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#228

Post by grishka »

neuralRiot wrote: post #127
connicpu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An indicator light hardwired is nice but I apparently can't trust hardware manufacturers to design it properly. My work laptop (HP Dragonfly) has a physical blocker that closes over the camera when I haven't explicitly pressed the button that enables the camera. The blocker is black and white stripes so it's very obvious when it's covering the sensor. This should absolutely be the security standard we all strive for…

Probably the camera “power” is always on as any other microcontroller on the same board, but is only active when called through the control bus or an interrupt, having an LED tied to the power rail would keep it on all the time whenever the lapop is on.

Then tie it to some signal or power rail that only gets enabled when the camera is in use, and that must be enabled for the camera to work, e.g. when there's power to the sensor itself.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#229

Post by vanchor3 »

salutis wrote: post #125
joemag wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root of all trust is eventually some human, or group of humans. See "Reflections on Trusting Trust." At least so far, Apple has convinced me that they are both willing and competent enough to maintain that trust.

Myself, I stopped trusting Apple. There are now too many dark patterns in their software, especially once one stops using their services. And, DRM was re-instantiated, when iTunes started streaming as Apple Music. On top of that, their lies, such as those about the Butterfly keyboards being fixed, cost me a fortune. They fuck up the keyboard design, and then they buy the computer back for 40% of its original price, d…

> DRM was re-instantiated, when iTunes started streaming as Apple Music

Purchased music is DRM free. Streaming music was never DRM free, since you arguably do not "own" music that you have not purchased. Though I'm sure record labels would love if they could get DRM back on purchased music again.

Re: Malware can turn off webcam LED and record video, demonstrated on ThinkPad X230

#230

Post by nuforia »

xyst wrote: post #224

Could be useful, if this was 2000s. These days don’t even need to hack the victim. They proudly give it all up via social media. Talk to a person long enough and they will spill every detail about their life. Routine, job, social life, deepest desires.

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