Why are debut novels failing to launch? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#221

Post by bowsamic » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 8:18 PM UTC

Der_Einzige wrote: post #210

bowsamic wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. No, they aren't forms of genre fiction 2. Middlemarch isn't social realism. If you had to put a label on it, it would be psychological fiction a la Stephen King 3. Lolita is DEFINITELY not lolicon (if anything it's the opposite) and it's quite offensive to suggest it is The point is, OP is complaining about not liking reading, but if he's only read sci-fi, he hasn't read the classics

In regards to 3, It might as well be. It's a sick novel for sick people, and I can't believe that it's read in high schools. Somehow we still read Marquees De Sade too even though everything he wrote is more depraved than most of what goes on 4chan today.

What? Have you even read it? It’s extremely tame and satirical, far far more tame than most modern shock porn writing like “A Little Life”

In fact there’s not even a single graphic sex scene in Lolita

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#222

Post by api » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 8:18 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #204

api wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were writing a book I’d definitely consider a real publisher but before that I’d be tempted to pay someone independent to be an editor and be bad cop. A student or remote worker with literary chops would do that as a first pass. Pay them to tell me what about my book sucks before wasting an editors time with a submission.

I'm not sure to what degree I'd trust a student or random online gig worker to give a really useful editorial option. Copy-editing or maybe technical edit? Possibly. I used an intern who worked for a magazine editor I knew to copyedit a book once and that worked fine. But I wasn't looking for substantive structural work. In fairness, I didn't really get that when I went through a publisher either. The second edition…

The idea would be to get feedback from someone who isn’t partial to you and who hopefully has an eye for decent writing. You wouldn’t take what they say as gospel but it’d be enlightening.

It’s like letting someone tech savvy but not partial try the UI/UX of an app. They’ll see things you don’t and get confused in places you don’t.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#223

Post by surfingdino » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 9:08 PM UTC

_tom_ wrote: post #119

surfingdino wrote: post #9

The market is dominated by large publishers. They do not need to compete, they have already won. At the same time, they don't want to loose the marketshare, which makes them less likely to bet on an unknown author.

The market is dominated by ebooks. Trad publishing gets a few home runs, but overall can't compete with the sheer volume of new independent books that come out each year.

Trad publishers + a savvy agent will make the author rich. A successful ebook will make Amazon rich.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#224

Post by tomnipotent » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

unclebucknasty wrote: post #194

tomnipotent wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we're expected to feel sympathy for the broke bootstrapper? What I'm reading is someone wants all the upsides with none of the downsides. No one is entitled to an audience, especially that of another, just because they've produced some good or service. Participating in capitalism requires either time or money, usually both, and even then you're not guaranteed success.

> So we're expected to feel sympathy for the broke bootstrapper? No one is entitled to an audience... Participating in capitalism requires either time or money...and even then you're not guaranteed success. Wow. It's like I'm talking with a real, live Rockefeller! My comment was exactly about requesting sympathy and demanding government mandates to buy my products, and those of every bootstrapper. But, your brilliant…

It's always humorous when people turn nasty and throw ad hominem's rather than actually addressing the topic.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#225

Post by unclebucknasty » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 9:27 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #142

unclebucknasty wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment resonates and I liken it to promoting when starting a business, which I have just recently done again. Feels like there is a massive imbalance between quality outlets where eyeballs exist and the volume of people /content/businesses vying for attention at those outlets. And, the idea that we need to all become influencers of some scale and amass our own audiences to get the word out about something is no…

> And, the idea that we need to all become influencers of some scale and amass our own audiences to get the word out about something is not practical or possible. Just creates a long-tail for the platforms. This leaves a relative handful of platforms and influencers through which everyone must flow. >It produces an all-or-nothing effect, with tons of failures and a few outsized winners (relatively The “it” you are re…

>The “it” you are referring to here is math, or just the way networks work...power law distribution...

These are more observations around the dynamics of the current state. I think we all understand network effects and other factors involved in where we are.

But, there's no natural law that prescribes precisely the current state of affairs.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#226

Post by hombre_fatal » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 9:30 PM UTC

devbent wrote: post #13

boznz wrote: post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

> HN and reddit will also immediately block self-promotion even if relevant to the audience ( HN doesn't block self promotion if it comes up as part of a conversation, e.g. "I'm having this technical problem." Re: "I wrote a book about how to solve that!" Also you can at least put a link in your profile! Reddit has tons of self promos all the time, it just depends on the subreddit. Also it helps if you're a long time…

Reddit is a good guerilla promotion platform. You just can't be overt about it. The stereotypical version is to change "look what I made" to "look what I found" and all the ad complaints go away.

You see this a lot in r/gaming where people post clips of games all day, but if you mention that you made the game in the clip, you get inane comments about how it's an ad.

That said, books are hard to market no matter what. There's no visual hook like you have with games and movies. You can't just guerilla-shill it like a SaaS.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#227

Post by unclebucknasty » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 9:31 PM UTC

tomnipotent wrote: post #224

unclebucknasty wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So we're expected to feel sympathy for the broke bootstrapper? No one is entitled to an audience... Participating in capitalism requires either time or money...and even then you're not guaranteed success. Wow. It's like I'm talking with a real, live Rockefeller! My comment was exactly about requesting sympathy and demanding government mandates to buy my products, and those of every bootstrapper. But, your brilliant…

It's always humorous when people turn nasty and throw ad hominem's rather than actually addressing the topic.

The point is that you missed the point. Entirely.

I said none of the things you want me to "address".

Maybe re-read what I actually wrote and respond to that, if it's really a discussion you're seeking.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#228

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 9:41 PM UTC

unclebucknasty wrote: post #227

tomnipotent wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always humorous when people turn nasty and throw ad hominem's rather than actually addressing the topic.

The point is that you missed the point. Entirely. I said none of the things you want me to "address". Maybe re-read what I actually wrote and respond to that, if it's really a discussion you're seeking.

[deleted]

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#229

Post by surfingdino » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 9:41 PM UTC

CuriouslyC wrote: post #38

pfdietz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage you to read some random self-published e-books on Amazon.

I encourage you to read some random publisher published books, that have been on the top of best seller lists. 50 shades of hot garbage comes to mind.

50 Shades of Grey is smut with a stamp of approval of a large publisher. They allow it once in a while as a way to monetise human sexuality otherwise repressed and controlled by various powers.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#230

Post by tomnipotent » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 9:41 PM UTC

unclebucknasty wrote: post #227

tomnipotent wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always humorous when people turn nasty and throw ad hominem's rather than actually addressing the topic.

The point is that you missed the point. Entirely. I said none of the things you want me to "address". Maybe re-read what I actually wrote and respond to that, if it's really a discussion you're seeking.

You were complaining about platforms and influencer's gatekeeping their audiences and creating some sort of "all-or-nothing effect", whatever that means. Someone else pointed out that ads exist, and you got snippy and decided to attack the OP for "never bootstrapped a business, self-published a book, or similar".

I pointed out that you don't get an audience for free, and that seems to have further upset you.

Doesn't look like the issue is on my end. You could have used the opportunity to correct my understanding, instead you decided to be rude.