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Why are debut novels failing to launch?

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Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#41

Post by autoexec »

photonthug wrote: post #32
japhib wrote: post #7

Seems like almost every creative industry (music, video games, art, writing) is having the same issue: Creation & publication tools are getting cheaper & easier to use, which means a lot more people can publish their creative ideas. With such a huge number of choices, discovery is now the issue. IMO discovery of what is truly high quality is still an unsolved problem. Seems like recommendation systems generally just…

> With such a huge number of choices, discovery is now the issue. It's frustrating if people don't see that this is almost always a manufactured problem, not some an inevitable outcome of simply having more choices. Platforms want to disable the ability for users to differentiate between organic, self-directed discovery vs advertised or promoted content. Discovery needs to be just good enough so that users won't leav…

> Platforms want to disable the ability for users to differentiate between organic, self-directed discovery vs advertised or promoted content.

It's not just that platforms don't want you to know if what they're showing you is an ad or an organic result/recommendation, if they made it easy for people to find what they want then companies wouldn't have to pay them for prominent placement in the first place.

There's still a real problem (that AI will only make worse) with really good things being drowned out by a sea of garbage, but people wanting to act as gatekeepers (and collect tolls) only make the problem worse.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#42

Post by kredd »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #38
pfdietz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage you to read some random self-published e-books on Amazon.

I encourage you to read some random publisher published books, that have been on the top of best seller lists. 50 shades of hot garbage comes to mind.

50 shades of hot garbage, unironically, is one of the books that brought smut back into the mainstream. As much as I have no interest in reading the series, have to give credits to the author for making something incredibly popular. We can hate it, but there are millions of people who read and write fanfic on a daily basis, and targeting that audience is respectable.

But I agree, being on bestsellers list nowadays doesn’t even as much as it used to. Everyone’s up there to game the system, whether through extreme SEO-boosting or buying their ways into shortlists and recommendations.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#43

Post by _yb2s »

pfdietz wrote: post #35
_yb2s wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that to be an awful attitude... self-absorbed people with nothing interesting to write about will assume it doesn't apply to them because they are so interesting, and people not so sure of themselves but having an actual unusual idea or story they are passionate about, could easily be discouraged from sharing something valuable. I say, if you have something to say that fits well in a book, write it. Let other…

I encourage you to read some random self-published e-books on Amazon.

I do! I have some niche hobbies and have read, and really enjoyed several self published amazon ebooks that had zero reviews.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#44

Post by unclebucknasty »

boznz wrote: post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

Your comment resonates and I liken it to promoting when starting a business, which I have just recently done again.

Feels like there is a massive imbalance between quality outlets where eyeballs exist and the volume of people /content/businesses vying for attention at those outlets.

And, the idea that we need to all become influencers of some scale and amass our own audiences to get the word out about something is not practical or possible. Just creates a long-tail for the platforms. This leaves a relative handful of platforms and influencers through which everyone must flow.

It produces an all-or-nothing effect, with tons of failures and a few outsized winners (relatively).

I've solved this before, but things weren't as concentrated then. And, ironically, my latest business is intended to solve this for others. But, this startup phase is a beast.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#45

Post by insane_dreamer »

This is why Amazon can’t supplant bookstores because they, and publishers, act as curators for the deluge of creative works out there. (Not saying they are always right in their choices and certainly good stuff gets written that is never submitted to a publisher, but I would rather browse the shelves of my local bookstore—especially an independent one run by someone who cares very much about literature (as booksellers do as they’re otherwise not in that difficult business), than scroll through Amazon.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#46

Post by rixed »

namaria wrote: post #28
japhib wrote: post #7

Seems like almost every creative industry (music, video games, art, writing) is having the same issue: Creation & publication tools are getting cheaper & easier to use, which means a lot more people can publish their creative ideas. With such a huge number of choices, discovery is now the issue. IMO discovery of what is truly high quality is still an unsolved problem. Seems like recommendation systems generally just…

Time is a great filter. That's why it's commonplace to complain about 'art these days' and to be nostalgic about past books and music. Some of the greatest, most interesting books I've ever read are thousands of years old.

You can't know wether time is a good filter without assessing the value of what's been lost forever, can you?

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#47

Post by photonthug »

StrangeDoctor wrote: post #33
photonthug wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With such a huge number of choices, discovery is now the issue. It's frustrating if people don't see that this is almost always a manufactured problem, not some an inevitable outcome of simply having more choices. Platforms want to disable the ability for users to differentiate between organic, self-directed discovery vs advertised or promoted content. Discovery needs to be just good enough so that users won't leav…

Goodreads is faang? The problem isn’t manufactured or conspiratorial, it’s just baked into sorting so much content on so few metrics. And needing to account for what the user is currently in the mood for something specific, something generic.

My point is that GoodReads isn't popular enough for it to be profitable to sabotage (yet). And there's still a threat of something more relevant coming along. If they actually wanted to improve discovery for something like prime video/shopping, then they could/would copy what works from GoodReads.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#48

Post by bitmasher9 »

vundercind wrote: post #37
medion wrote: post #26

Publishers only want to publish authors with large social followings. The first question they ask is a list of your socials.

… and lots of those are kinda bad . But it sells almost as well as a decent book, and you don’t have to spend as much promoting it, so it’s still what they want.

You’re a social influencer with a non-fiction book out? Let me just watch your clips for 15 minutes and you’ll deliver all of the information in your three hundred page book. There’s no substance in most of them.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#49

Post by plorkyeran »

photonthug wrote: post #32
japhib wrote: post #7

Seems like almost every creative industry (music, video games, art, writing) is having the same issue: Creation & publication tools are getting cheaper & easier to use, which means a lot more people can publish their creative ideas. With such a huge number of choices, discovery is now the issue. IMO discovery of what is truly high quality is still an unsolved problem. Seems like recommendation systems generally just…

> With such a huge number of choices, discovery is now the issue. It's frustrating if people don't see that this is almost always a manufactured problem, not some an inevitable outcome of simply having more choices. Platforms want to disable the ability for users to differentiate between organic, self-directed discovery vs advertised or promoted content. Discovery needs to be just good enough so that users won't leav…

Goodreads shot past the point of being too small to be worth bothering sabotaging years ago, and is now very heavily manipulated.
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