Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features • Hacker News Board

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#221

Post by y7 » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

Libcat99 wrote: post #14

johnl1479 wrote: post #7

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

I'm somewhat torn too. IBM and I'm sure others have shipped enterprise hardware for years that was partially locked. You might get a machine with 16 cpus but you only paid for 8, for example, but you could license the rest as you grew. It seems a little similar and it was in no way underhanded, everyone knew what the deal was. However I'll echo what another poster said. I say Tesla should be free to sell whatever the…

I think the concept of "licensing" should not apply to something you own. If they want to rent you a CPU, fine, but then they should also bear the costs for when it breaks.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#222

Post by yreg » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

LesZedCB wrote: post #205

DistractionRect wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda get it. Rather than maintaining a supply of multiple parts which complicates your supply chain and install/repair procedures, Tesla is making cars nearly 100% identical physically and differentiating in software.

so make them all cost the same then.....?

No. I don't need the rear heated seats.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#223

Post by bartchamdo » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:35 PM UTC

Libcat99 wrote: post #14

johnl1479 wrote: post #7

I'm torn. On one hand, I absolutely think that a capability available in the vehicle/device when you purchased it should be available for you to use, and not behind a software lock (heated seats, etc). On the other hand, an "upgrade" or 100% new software delivered via OTA (self driving, etc) seems a little more like it should be a separate thing.

I'm somewhat torn too. IBM and I'm sure others have shipped enterprise hardware for years that was partially locked. You might get a machine with 16 cpus but you only paid for 8, for example, but you could license the rest as you grew. It seems a little similar and it was in no way underhanded, everyone knew what the deal was. However I'll echo what another poster said. I say Tesla should be free to sell whatever the…

Sun Microsystems did this in the early 2000’s

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#224

Post by globalise83 » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:36 PM UTC

fluoridation wrote: post #87

rootusrootus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of a customer, what is the difference between a heated seat that doesn't work because it doesn't exist, and one that is locked out by software? Assuming the customer isn't paying up front for that feature. Some people don't want to pay for heated seats. Turns out the manufacturer found it cheaper to just include the hardware anyway rather than differentiate on the production line. What's the big…

>Some people don't want to pay for heated seats. Turns out the manufacturer found it cheaper to just include the hardware anyway rather than differentiate on the production line. If it's that cheap then it should just always be included, period. Otherwise it's just transparent greed. Why charge your customers extra for something that costs you literally nothing extra? Why not do the same for everything? The radio vol…

And that is how Ryanair was born...

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#225

Post by internetter » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

oittaa wrote: post #81

Bissness wrote: post #4

Ah yes, "full" self driving

It's getting pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75A9g4HsQiU

This video seemed to have pretty good performance actually, but I've seen articles where the car just gets stuck, makes unsafe maneuvers or just violates laws and this guy (whole mars catalogue) defends it. Watching prior videos shows it fail to yield to stop lights, stop in the middle of intersections or just total incompetence about highway etiquette (such as the highly watched SF -> LA video (in this video the whole highway is dubious, also violations at 1:18, 1:24, 1:30, maybe 17:24, probably others I missed... 3 in the span of 15 seconds)). I'm not at the point where I trust this thing.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#226

Post by pitched » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #193

vorticalbox wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's likely because it's a hardware issue, nothing really for tesla to do.

Apologize for my ignorance, but isn't it up to Tesla to define what hardware they want to integrate? Or is there no design alternative?

Changing hardware would mean a recall and this doesn’t seem to warrant it.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#227

Post by pbhjpbhj » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

lockhouse wrote: post #58

johnl1479 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not interested in having a whataboutism discussion. There is a clear distinction here of software vs hardware

Is there though? Even on game consoles, the “DLC” is often a couple meg download because the actual content is already built into the game. You could turn Windows NT 3.51 Workstation into Server by just changing a registry key! https://www.landley.net/history/mirror/ms/differences_nt.htm...

I'm not sure 'MS charged $800 more for NT server when it was basically the same as NT', given how much they're known for unfair and fraudulent business practices, is the greatest argument.

Expecting capitalism to be fair is probably where we're all going wrong here.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#228

Post by LocalH » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

Rent-seeking is the true American way, it seems.

Good on the hackers. Good on everyone who helps to liberate us from the overreach of big business.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#229

Post by moffkalast » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

ddalex wrote: post #216

vessenes wrote: post #47

Pretty sophisticated attack vector: low voltage attack on AMD secure execution environment during boot. I wonder how many tries you need to get whatever bits you need in the right place. Also, I imagine you only need to cut 12V wires to do this, but I admire the willingness to get in there direct on these systems. I'd be a little nervous to make those cuts personally. Buried in the article is the claim that this will…

> you could anonymize your location on Tesla's servers I already anonymise my location on Tesla's servers by simply not owning a Tesla

Ah, but where's the challenge in that?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#230

Post by iramiller » Thu, Aug 03, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

gcanyon wrote: post #197

Because what could possibly go wrong hacking a hunk of metal that transports you at lethal speeds...

This line of reasoning is what is used to justify lock-in and anti-right to repair legislation. Following this reasoning you shouldn’t be allowed to change a flat tire on your car as it could be improperly tightened and fly off at speed.

Technical constraints to lock out owners/users only serve to enforce a manufacturer’s feudalistic rent seeking and revenue extraction policies.

In the overall scope of driving a personal automobile cellphone use or even adjusting the car entertainment system are far more common causes of accidents and death and yet these are not locked away via technical controls despite being very easy to accomplish.