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Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

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Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#221

Post by wolfram74 »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #211
michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

I have to say there’s a strange fixation on making ICE quieter. EV’s are so quiet you have to add things to them to make a little noise so they don’t run people over. I’d much rather see cities move towards EV and build out EV infra than try to figure out how to make Rube Goldberg machines more complex to reduce their noise by 10%, while not addressing the rest of the ills. There are non trivial problems to solve wit…

I don't think OP is referring to the ICE that are already making some efforts towards quiet, I think they're referring to the engines that to the casual observer seem like they have a horn instead of a muffler to maximize noise output.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#222

Post by atq2119 »

bena wrote: post #154
Gwypaas wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I ever go to mall? It is an awful experience. At most, when it would be too cumbersome to bring on public transport, I rent a car.

Not a "shopping mall" mall, but an old-school open area with shops and restaurants. I don't know if you watch Ted Lasso, but Lasso and Beard live right next to a mall and frequently walk through it or meet up at a bench there.

It's interesting that you call that area (from the TV show) a mall. It would never have occurred to me to call it that, it's just a normal mixed-use walkable part of a city.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#223

Post by aequitas »

chrisldgk wrote: post #115
michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

I think you’re focusing on the wrong issue here. Engine noise nowadays is a lot less of a problem than tire noise, especially with cars going 50km/h+. Some cars are loud because people want them to be, most cars are loud because the noise the tires make when driving is loud, and that only gets worse the more cars you have around.

> Engine noise nowadays is a lot less of a problem than tire noise, especially with cars going 50km/h+

True, I live next to a 60km/h road (so everyone drives 80km/h at least) and I have been noticing that EV's are just as loud as ICE cars. The only difference is the ICE's have an additional tone to them, but that doesn't make them much louder to me, just different. However the real issue is motorbikes and mopeds which don't have any exhaust dampening (or removed it).

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#224

Post by fnordpiglet »

teebot wrote: post #214
fnordpiglet wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What this tells me is that the internal combustion engine is a bad idea everywhere but especially in a dense urban core. People like both the dense urban core and the suburb single family home life style. They are very different modes of life. A lot of Europeans I know really like one or the other because they don’t really get them back home. The solution to road noise doesn’t have to be a dramatic rezoning and a rev…

I also thought EVs would be quieter but as they became more common in my street I noticed they’re only a little quieter than internal combustion cars from the moment they reach a certain speed (say 30km/h). Most of the noise comes from the tire friction and aerodynamics.

Urban core traffic is slow moving and dominated by engine noise. In fact it’s generally dominated by public transit noise - massive double length buses, of services - garbage trucks. Tire noise is more an issue for folks living next to high traffic thru routes.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#225

Post by mk67 »

acdha wrote: post #126
llm_nerd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discussing a topic rationally and openly isn't a bias, and I've seen no evidence that HN has an anti-car bias particularly. We dedicate a huge amount of the public space to personal vehicles, and it is the sort of solution that basically creates its own problem, with the uptake of cars necessitating urban planning that make it necessary for an uptake in cars. Rinse and repeat. It should be possible to discuss this ra…

I’d also add the enormous expense: if you’re rich, sure, cars aren’t a concern but even middle class people are usually worried about payments & repairs, and loss of a reliable car is one of the most common ways people fall out of the middle class, not to mention everyone starting retirement with so much less money. There are good parts, of course, but I think it’s very reasonable to ask whether we get a good value f…

Wouldn't really call it middle class if a lower five digit sum is a major inconvenience. Probably the problem is more that there is not much middle class left nowadays and most people are lower class.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#226

Post by kloch »

I recently moved from a forested mountain to the center if a very small city. Even though there is a freeway 1/2 mile away road noise isn't bad as this area still has significant WFH %.

It did take me 6 months to adapt to the very frequent emergency sirens, mostly fire/ambulance. It was jarring at first but now I've mostly tuned that out.

Then there's garbage trucks with their very loud backup beeps several mornings per week, and construction noise that starts every morning at 5am.

The worst are people who double honk every time they go around a corner in a parking garage, even at 11pm. That's not really a thing in this area so I'm assuming they learned that habit elsewhere.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#227

Post by _t9ow »

kloch wrote: post #226

I recently moved from a forested mountain to the center if a very small city. Even though there is a freeway 1/2 mile away road noise isn't bad as this area still has significant WFH %. It did take me 6 months to adapt to the very frequent emergency sirens, mostly fire/ambulance. It was jarring at first but now I've mostly tuned that out. Then there's garbage trucks with their very loud backup beeps several mornings…

> I recently moved from a forested mountain to the center if a very small city

May I ask why?

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#228

Post by 331c8c71 »

prottog wrote: post #192
epolanski wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say what you want about soviet city planning but it was damn efficient. I have never ever seen a soviet-era suburb which didn't have 4 to 12 story buildings with parks and aisles all around them and all kind of services being at a 5 minutes walking distance top (church, shops, post office, elementary and middle school, etc).[1] Literally under every building you would find people quietly enjoying their evening on the…

Economical progress is certainly no guarantee of happiness, and hardships do often foster a sense of camaraderie that brings people closer together. Soldiers who have been in combat, for example, find that they miss the foxhole, even though getting shot at is no one's idea of a happy time. > People don't really enjoy their evenings chatting to each other because benches have been removed and kid playgrounds have been…

> There's nothing about economic growth and material wealth that requires this to happen. Something else must have changed.

Agreed. When I was a kid we used to just roam outside (let alone walking to school and extracurriculars by ourselves).

That's no longer normal at exactly the same places even if objectively it is safer now. The perception of risk must be one thing that has changed but I think there's more to it...

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#229

Post by phpisthebest »

elieri wrote: post #216
phpisthebest wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes here we are, Here we are were the majority have self selected to live in the way I prefer, but people want to use government violence (i.e regulation) to force people to live in a manner they did not self select. I have no problems if people want to create something voluntarily that is walkable, I have massive problems with using government to do it.

Is it not equal "government violence," then, to make illegal buildings without a certain number of parking spaces attached, or that take up more than a certain percentage of the lot area, or have more than a certain number of units, or would add a café or corner store to a residential zone? Your preferred development patterns are the government-enforced ones, currently.

I prefer no zoning at all, so yes requiring parking is equally bad as requiring walkablity

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#230

Post by tristor »

michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

To be clear, I am speaking for pretty much all “car guys” to say we also hate popcorn tunes and stance too. These are both (inter-related) trends only popular with the very young and very low class promulgated via Tik Tok.

No “car guy” is impressed by a busted up 20 year old BMW 318i with a popcorn tune, straight pipes, and rep wheels, but there’s a lot of barely 20-somethings who think it’s cool yet don’t know the first thing about how cars work.

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