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Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

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Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#211

Post by fnordpiglet »

michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

I have to say there’s a strange fixation on making ICE quieter. EV’s are so quiet you have to add things to them to make a little noise so they don’t run people over. I’d much rather see cities move towards EV and build out EV infra than try to figure out how to make Rube Goldberg machines more complex to reduce their noise by 10%, while not addressing the rest of the ills.

There are non trivial problems to solve with EV in the city. Solve those instead of propping up age of fire dinosaur juice machines.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#212

Post by darkteflon »

david-gpu wrote: post #157
darkteflon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, well, more than 20 years living here and I reckon the air quality is terrible and that in 2023 it should be a much higher priority than it is. I have to raise my kids here. I’m sure the total absence of zero emissions vehicle options has absolutely nothing to do with the political influence of the Japanese automotive lobby.

Somebody else in the thread showed you actual objective data on air pollution and you brushed it off. In Japan a substantial majority of people commute by transit, mostly by rail. How would air pollution be affected if as many people commuted by car as they typically do in North America? Cars are the subject of this post.

You’re absolutely right. I’ve lived here for 20 years but have no fucking idea what I’m talking about. What was I thinking. Carry on.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#213

Post by Xylakant »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #206
david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

What this tells me is that the internal combustion engine is a bad idea everywhere but especially in a dense urban core. People like both the dense urban core and the suburb single family home life style. They are very different modes of life. A lot of Europeans I know really like one or the other because they don’t really get them back home. The solution to road noise doesn’t have to be a dramatic rezoning and a rev…

> What this tells me is that the internal combustion engine is a bad idea everywhere but especially in a dense urban core.

Engine noise only dominates up to roughly 20mph, at higher speeds the tire noise is the dominating component until roughly 100mph where wind becomes the dominant.

So this:

> The solution to road noise doesn’t have to be a dramatic rezoning and a reversion to Europe everywhere. It could be to make cars and trucks quieter.

Would mean both switching to electric cars and reducing speeds significantly to less than 20mph.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#214

Post by teebot »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #206
david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

What this tells me is that the internal combustion engine is a bad idea everywhere but especially in a dense urban core. People like both the dense urban core and the suburb single family home life style. They are very different modes of life. A lot of Europeans I know really like one or the other because they don’t really get them back home. The solution to road noise doesn’t have to be a dramatic rezoning and a rev…

I also thought EVs would be quieter but as they became more common in my street I noticed they’re only a little quieter than internal combustion cars from the moment they reach a certain speed (say 30km/h).

Most of the noise comes from the tire friction and aerodynamics.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#215

Post by hugh-avherald »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #206
david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

What this tells me is that the internal combustion engine is a bad idea everywhere but especially in a dense urban core. People like both the dense urban core and the suburb single family home life style. They are very different modes of life. A lot of Europeans I know really like one or the other because they don’t really get them back home. The solution to road noise doesn’t have to be a dramatic rezoning and a rev…

Cars aren't loud because of the engines. A Tesla driving by isn't much louder than an equivalent ICE-powered alternative. A lot of the noise is the air resistance and the tyres.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#216

Post by elieri »

phpisthebest wrote: post #193
david-gpu wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I prefer not be limited in my shopping choices just to the single shop that happens to be in my building or on my block... And I prefer not living with constant traffic noise and at risk of being run over every time I step outside. I prefer biking with my kid to his school, but we can't because the traffic makes it a suicidal idea. I also prefer to listen to birds when I walk to the shops nearby, but the traff…

Yes here we are, Here we are were the majority have self selected to live in the way I prefer, but people want to use government violence (i.e regulation) to force people to live in a manner they did not self select. I have no problems if people want to create something voluntarily that is walkable, I have massive problems with using government to do it.

Is it not equal "government violence," then, to make illegal buildings without a certain number of parking spaces attached, or that take up more than a certain percentage of the lot area, or have more than a certain number of units, or would add a café or corner store to a residential zone? Your preferred development patterns are the government-enforced ones, currently.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#217

Post by spacemadness »

clsec wrote: post #200
michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

I live on an artery/thoroughfare in SF. My street also has a 10-15' retaining wall along one side that faces a small valley on the other. The noise on my street is extremely loud and echoes throughout the whole neighborhood. My favorite days and nights are Sundays when streets are the quietest. Here's how I've ordered the worst offenders in my head. 1) Harley's with open pipes 2) cars without any exhaust (common) 3)…

I’m of course happy covid is a bit more under control, but I can’t help but feel sad we’re back to the noise levels we had pre-covid. For a short period of time near the beginning of the pandemic we got to experience Bay area cities without being surrounded by extreme levels of car noise pollution; it was incredible to imagine what that would be like as a normal part of living here.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#218

Post by bombolo »

Reason077 wrote: post #167
bombolo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> diesel buses Ah, we love the electric ones here in sweden! Of course they have to stop ~20 minutes to recharge instead of just turning back. And of course when it's cold (which surprisingly does happen in sweden) the batteries can't hold enough charge to do 1 run, so they can't run.

> "Of course they have to stop ~20 minutes to recharge instead of just turning back." London's electric buses (mostly UK-built bus bodies with BYD drivetrains and batteries) have large enough battery packs for them to run all day without charging. They get recharged overnight, when electricity is cheap, while parked in the bus depots. As of March, London had 785 fully electric buses in service, out of a total fleet o…

London's busses are very small.

Do you have a source that they run the entire day with no charging?

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#219

Post by boron1006 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #193
david-gpu wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I prefer not be limited in my shopping choices just to the single shop that happens to be in my building or on my block... And I prefer not living with constant traffic noise and at risk of being run over every time I step outside. I prefer biking with my kid to his school, but we can't because the traffic makes it a suicidal idea. I also prefer to listen to birds when I walk to the shops nearby, but the traff…

Yes here we are, Here we are were the majority have self selected to live in the way I prefer, but people want to use government violence (i.e regulation) to force people to live in a manner they did not self select. I have no problems if people want to create something voluntarily that is walkable, I have massive problems with using government to do it.

What are you talking about? We are in this position precisely because of government regulation prioritizing cars. Most of American cities are still only zoned for SFH within the city limits. It’s nearly impossible to build in any other way because of regulation. Not to mention the many many subsidies for the auto industry.

The thing that frustrates me most about libertarians is how everything they don’t want is regulation or government spending, but everything they do want is provided by the grace of god or something.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#220

Post by fnordpiglet »

Xylakant wrote: post #213
fnordpiglet wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What this tells me is that the internal combustion engine is a bad idea everywhere but especially in a dense urban core. People like both the dense urban core and the suburb single family home life style. They are very different modes of life. A lot of Europeans I know really like one or the other because they don’t really get them back home. The solution to road noise doesn’t have to be a dramatic rezoning and a rev…

> What this tells me is that the internal combustion engine is a bad idea everywhere but especially in a dense urban core. Engine noise only dominates up to roughly 20mph, at higher speeds the tire noise is the dominating component until roughly 100mph where wind becomes the dominant. So this: > The solution to road noise doesn’t have to be a dramatic rezoning and a reversion to Europe everywhere. It could be to make…

This is about the urban core. Speed in the urban core in every US city I know is 20.
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