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Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

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221–230 of 267 posts

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#221
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but Norway is an oil nation.

Denmark, Sweden and a bunch other countries in Europe that have similar rules (probably lower pay though...) are not.

I believe that after a period of strong Norwegian krone - we're now back to normal, and pay is generally better in Sweden and Denmark.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially when a bunch of that extra income just goes to childcare and services to make up for having less time to manage the house. And then much of the rest is eaten in competition for housing, with prices increased by all the extra money from those second incomes. I'm skeptical that we'd be much worse off, in actual experienced fact, if the norm were single-income households. I wouldn't be surprised if measures o…

Any ideas on how to ensure women retain financial independence?

Independence from whom?

From their husbands? Only to be dependent on some stranger boss instead?

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#223
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well family is the last thing on mind for Economic planners and political class. They have this cartoonish belief that they can beat China by having worse labor laws on workers' welfare.

> they have this cartoonish belief that they can beat China by having worse labor laws on workers' welfare. Is it really cartoonish when everyone apparently agrees that China became what it is today by having worse labour laws then the rest of the world?

Plenty of countries had even worse labour laws. Worse labour laws than, say, the USA and Western Europe, sure, but India is already there.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not particularly. You're earning around $2.5k a year (1.8 lpa) which isn't the most competitive even in most of India tbh, especially when factoring CoL in Karnataka. If this was Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan, or Harit Pradesh/Western UP (regions of India with the right mix of supply chain and cheap labor), it might fly with migrants from Bihar, Purvanchal, and the Tribal Belt, but definetly not in KN. You can easily ear…

1.8 lpa is better than what many "uskilled" labourers make even in Karnataka. 1.1 to 1.44 lpa (9k to 12k a month) is what the cleaners, for example, makes in a college where someone I know studies. Daily wage labourers make a similar amount.

True! But cleaners and mazdoori labourers make that much for better hours.

Also the 1.8lpa figure is for their "Graduate Engineering Trainee" - for assembly Foxconn began leveraging Engineering graduates to work in assembly. So this isn't an unskilled job, and even then pay is on the lower end for a fresher.

That's why there was a violent bandh a couple years ago at a Foxconn supplier named Winstron - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NqvT8LYj2Ic - bad pay and bad hours pissed workers off.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#225
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*in American English. Both are ‘vice’ in English English (UK/NZ/AU) as far as I’m aware. ‘Vice’ in American English, still has alternative meanings, like ‘vice president’.

> ‘Vice’ in American English, still has alternative meanings, like ‘vice president’. Does that count as English? I though it is borrowed Latin, like de facto, et cetera or per se .

No idea - it may have come to English via French too.

English is a mongrel of a language.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#226
post #183

Somehow, Apple will have a moving video about their human centered values at their next product launch and there won't be a dry eye in the room. It's sickening how effective it is.

They make it up with those watch armbands and some women presenters, it’s fine!

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#227
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ‘Vice’ in American English, still has alternative meanings, like ‘vice president’. Does that count as English? I though it is borrowed Latin, like de facto, et cetera or per se .

No idea - it may have come to English via French too. English is a mongrel of a language.

From a brief dip in the multi volume full OED it looks like "Vice Chairman" (etc) came about via vyse | visage | "face" .. as in "This person is a substitute | deputy | "the face" of another person or role"

It's a usage going back to at least 1597 and lost in the fog of time before.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#228
post #183

Somehow, Apple will have a moving video about their human centered values at their next product launch and there won't be a dry eye in the room. It's sickening how effective it is.

"we are diverse and inclusive". That's all it takes for western consumers to forget about the unethical and immoral way these corporations make money and feel good about themselves. 20 years ago it was "we're green", in 20 years it will be something else.

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A way of "catching up"? Demanding an inhumane amount of work out of people doesn't help those people catch up, it uses up their one and only life to create wealth for a few elites in their country, and shareholders outside their country.

That could be true, but America and Europe did the same thing before they got rich. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to wag our finger at developing countries now for doing the same thing that our countries did?

Can you provide a source for your statement?

Re: Apple and Foxconn win permission for 12-hour shifts for women in India

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no alternative economic systems without questionable environmental and safety records. Any production system will be designed to maximize outputs at the quality the customer requires while minimizing process inputs. Whatever psychological and social framework is used organize companies, governments and individuals, the individual workers will still be performing the same assembly processes on the factory fl…

That's a nonsensical statement. Slavery, feudalism, and neoliberal states all attempt to produce as efficiently as possible, but they're obviously quite different...

The internal mechanisms are quite different, yes, however, the inputs and outputs are for the sake of this discussion, identical. The people, regardless of the system, would probably be performing the same types of operations. I’m not sure you read my original point as I intended it to be understood. A worker making tires under authoritarian communism is still going to be making tires under democratic capitalism - the differences in this worker’s experience may not be the result of these political and economic systems but rather policy at the corporate, departmental or state level which are not unique or exclusive to a particular government or economy. Any system will self propagate at the expense of other systems and individuals like workers.
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