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Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

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Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#221

Post by sliken »

cbsmith wrote: post #106
dahfizz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Threads like this read like EVs are double or more the weight of an ICE car. EVs are a couple hundred pounds heavier in average than an equivalent ICE car. In terms of road wear, it's still a rounding error compared to industrial trucks.

"couple of pounds heavier"??!?! That's understating it. Seriously, a Model 3 is ~500 lbs heavier than Honda Accord, and a Model Y is significantly heavier than a Model 3.

Be fair, those aren't comparable cars. BMW Model 3 and the Tesla model 3 are pretty similar in size, weight, and cost. The fastest of both is AWD and the Tesla is 4072 pounds and the M3 Competition and M3 Touring (the 2 variants with AWD) are 3924 pounds to 4116.

The non performance models are similar as well, the current BMW 3141-4023 pounds (the AWD are of course on the heavier side, and the Tesla model 3 is 3814 pounds.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#222

Post by TeMPOraL »

xracy wrote: post #213
JimtheCoder wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, my time in my car is some of the only pure "me" time I have, and I would hazard a guess that it is the same for many others. A car to me is a personal, climate controlled cocoon, where I can turn on whatever music I want, have a coffee or a snack, and escape for the 30 minutes or however long it takes to reach my destination...without the chance of being bothered by anyone else, much less any of the other…

Okay, but what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft? I get it might not be exactly the same, but walking/biking/Public Transiting with headphones in for a period of time is all that and more. And with the exception of a bike, you can do all of those things without having to sit in traffic...

> what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft?

I think GP's point is that it's more about space than about travel. Walking, or being on a public transport with headphones on, doesn't replace that - it's at most a very poor substitute.

The point is to be able to hide from other people - to have some minimum personal time, in a personal space, free from nagging and expectations of your spouse, children, friends, co-workers and bosses. Driving in a car to work enables this, because for the duration of your commute, you can ignore everyone's calls and requests guilt-free. It's the law that says you can't pick up a phone on the road. It's dangerous. You're also not driving for fun, you're driving to/from work. Nobody can have any expectations of you during that time. Yes, commute in traffic is torture. That's a feature. It gives you plausible deniability.

I may be breaking some unwritten fight club rule by spelling it out loud. Sorry. Also, I don't drive - to work or otherwise. But to the extent what I described above is a major part of car ownership, more and better public transport won't help, because it doesn't address this major part.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#223

Post by bluecalm »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #171
bluecalm wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-bikes are fine. My point was that bikes are not very efficient because of shitty aerodynamics. A light, low and narrow electric vehicle would be more efficient and more palatable to a lot of people than bikes.

Bikes aren’t typically going at speeds where aerodynamics is very relevant. Even E-bikes, maybe e-motorcycles have that problem?

It's not true at all! Most of the forces you have to overcome when cycling are from air resistance. At around 10mph it's already majority of resistance and at about 18mph it's more than 80%.

This is the reason the best upgrade speed wise for a casual road cyclists are tight clothes. This is also the reason you could be way more efficient if you construct a tear drop shaped vehicle. Illustration from Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#224

Post by gambiting »

sliken wrote: post #217
Tagbert wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Tesla is an outlier in the EV business. They only have one-pedal driving with regen or fully friction braking with the brake pedal. That is not true of the Chevy Bolt. Almost every other EV (and hybrid) on the market does blended regen with the brake pedal. Regen is applied when you first press on the brake pedal. As long as the pressure is mild to moderate, regen is used. If you press hard (as in emergency brak…

Well regenerative braking is limited and even more limited when cool. So Tesla's trying to train you to use the brake pedal when you want stronger braking. Makes sense to me, last thing I want is to get half as much braking as I expected. So with regen I get variable braking, but I get a reward (more range and less brake wear) if I plan ahead enough to make it work. However if there is surprise or immediate need for…

In a well designed system you have absolutely no idea whether the car is using the regenerative brake or proper brakes when you use the pedal - my Volvo XC60 uses regerative brakes first and you honestly can't tell when the transition happens. There is no "oh shit I need more braking" moment because the pedal operates in a very predictable linear fashion, like in any normal car. Same in my VW e-UP. The algorithms for this have been sorted out for a while now.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#225

Post by gambiting »

landemva wrote: post #202
therealdrag0 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've toggled it many times to no avail.

Sometimes dealer updates change settings. I saw a Subaru change behavior with lane departure warnings after an oil change.

I've had this this issue on my Mercedes before, the cause turned out to be the 12V battery that never charged properly, so the system didn't want to activate.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#226

Post by gambiting »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #210
gambiting wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no talk of outlawing any vehicles people already own. You won't be able to buy a brand new one in a decade, but there's no indication you won't be able to use one you already own.

Company cars in Belgium starting from this year have to be phev or ev. No more diesel or gasoline.

As in, new cars that companies buy from this year, right? If your company already owns a diesel vehicle it can be still used, correct?

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#227

Post by michpoch »

josephcsible wrote: post #184
michpoch wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do when you arrive at the charger with 6% battery left and the charger doesn’t work? Or if there’s a significant queue?

What do you do if your gas gauge is on E and the only gas station in the small town you're in is closed?

I take a bus / hitchhike to the next petrol station and come back with a canister of fuel.

It fortunately never happened to me personally.

On top of that, the "E" will mean I still have around 100 kms of range, maybe more if I start driving slowly. 6% on EV is like, 20 kms?

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#228

Post by michaelteter »

JimtheCoder wrote: post #124
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So much of our intellectual and financial energy seems to be directed toward overclocking the horse and buggy I don't personally think it's realistic to expect everybody/all people (who mainly work for a living/work hard) to ask them to give up the luxury of spending their hard earned money on being able to transport themselves (to and from their job) in something other than the comfort of their own car. I think yo…

Personally, my time in my car is some of the only pure "me" time I have, and I would hazard a guess that it is the same for many others. A car to me is a personal, climate controlled cocoon, where I can turn on whatever music I want, have a coffee or a snack, and escape for the 30 minutes or however long it takes to reach my destination...without the chance of being bothered by anyone else, much less any of the other…

> Personally, my time in my car is some of the only pure "me" time I have, and I would hazard a guess that it is the same for many others.

I totally get this, and I was in the same situation for many years (the young children period of my life).

However, imagine that instead of a 1hr commute, the commute was 30 minutes. Now your day has 1 hour "free" that you could choose to spend doing something for yourself. Maybe it's gym time, or maybe a music practice room in a building near your office, or yoga in the garden of the office rooftop.

As I say, I did share that same feeling when I was doing the normal commute/family thing. But it still points to a problem. We should be able to find or make the time and space to have a cocoon of calm or whatever we need and still have a life+family+work. I don't think that a small side-effect of solo driving in traffic which provides something like that cocoon is at all the right way to get the life balance we need.

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#229

Post by michaelteter »

dzikimarian wrote: post #159
VBprogrammer wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love driving as much as the next person but being on the roads at commuting time is hell on earth. Battling all of the other sleep deprived idiots to travel 3 miles in an hour. It's awful.

For me it's 15 minutes in pretty relaxed traffic and music/audiobook. Garage to office door + easy detour to shop if necessary. In the summer bike is nice alternative, but during bad weather there's nothing comparable to the comfort of car. Please remember not everyone lives in bay area with long commute and mild weather all year long :-)

The article was about that person's reality of 230km round trip commute each day, and the discussion was related.

A 15min commute as you have is a different situation (much better!). Nobody is trying to take away your car. I realize that it is often framed that way in US media, as if the options are public transport OR private cars. I have a car in the Netherlands which I use for some trips where public transport is not the better choice. But when possible, especially when going from one major city to another, public transport is such a nice luxury. (It also means I can go have fun at that late night party and never face the decision of whether to drive somewhat inebriated or not.)

Re: Realistic daily range of an electric vehicle

#230

Post by michaelteter »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #222
xracy wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft? I get it might not be exactly the same, but walking/biking/Public Transiting with headphones in for a period of time is all that and more. And with the exception of a bike, you can do all of those things without having to sit in traffic...

> what if we could do that in a way that each person didn't take up 100 Sqft? I think GP's point is that it's more about space than about travel. Walking, or being on a public transport with headphones on, doesn't replace that - it's at most a very poor substitute. The point is to be able to hide from other people - to have some minimum personal time, in a personal space, free from nagging and expectations of your sp…

This still smells like some greater problem. If retreating into our own private cars, solo, is the only way we can get some solitude and space from others, then we have painted ourselves into a corner.

Long ago I briefly shared an office with an "old guy" - an expert in a particular topic which gave him more freedom to behave strangely and not get fired. His strange behavior was to spend half of his lunch hour at his desk, leaned back, mouth wide open, napping. That was traditionally not acceptable behavior in a professional environment, but he apparently decided it was for him. So he did it. While it was a bit of a shock at first to the other employees, eventually we all became accustomed to it and even kept our voices down in the hallway outside when we new it was his nap time.

The point is that we have the freedom, even if it seems scary, to make some decisions about how we want our lives and how to get the balance we need. I am only just starting to learn how to do this.

The commute drive solo time is clearly not the same quality of solo time as many other options (choose your favorite).

When I had young children and a busy house, and my normal full time job, the bathroom was my solo space. Unsurprisingly, people didn't seem too interested to come bother me when I was in there. So I would read entire books while seeking solitude. Instead, it is conceivable that I could have just gathered everyone and made some agreements about what we all need, including sometimes privacy and quiet. Granted, a toddler will not respect those agreements, but the spouse can help ensure it works most of the time.

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