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The strange case of Britain’s demise

economist.com

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Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#221

Post by akiselev »

TapWaterBandit wrote: post #205
tobylane wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think overwhelming is the right word, his vote share was around Blair’s average. Now that half of Tory MPs have been cabinet members, it’s harder to demand loyalty by dangling a job for votes. Especially the ministerial roles that the public are aware of. The article seems to be avoiding the term "lame duck period". It reads an excessively selective set of opinions, and it's unclear who should be trying harde…

I'm astounded people are STILL burying their heads in the sand about Corbyn. But I suppose that is a large part of the reason why labour was losing for so long they kept denying the obvious reality that the electorate just did not like Corbyn but wouldn't get rid of him for internal political/ideological reasons.

There’s only one meme in British politics seen more often than Malcolm Tucker quotes: “It’s Corbyn’s fault!”

It’s febrile at this point.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#222

Post by nonrandomstring »

vsareto wrote: post #170
nonrandomstring wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A competence gap is a very polite way to put it. In Britain we live in an inverted meritocracy which rewards smug stupidity, elevates bullshit, while punishing and marginalising our most talented people. I thought this was going to be another cynical Economist hit piece like the earlier "Europe not pulling its weight" [1] but was surprised how on-the-money it is. Some well chosen quotes; "A family with the wrong memb…

Pretty sure if you went to school with folks running a country, you're probably in the big club he talks about regular people not being in, so you're unlikely to wake up in terror

He means it a bit less literally than that.

I'd call it the Biff Tannen (AKA Trump) effect.

That jackass kid who would stick a compass in his hand for giggles, set fire to cats or drink a bottle of antifreeze is now, by pure devious guile and rotten luck for everyone else, the mayor of your city.

You studied hard, went to college, served your nation, designed a better widget, raised a decent family, bought the dream... and have fuck-all say in what goes.

It's nothing to do with elite schools, prominent families or money. That's what makes it even more horrifying. The race is not to the quick etc... How arbitrary it is. I think that's Carlin's point.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#223

Post by JPKab »

webmobdev wrote: post #199
dignick wrote: post #145

Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. Our first past the post electoral system means the Tories can retain power with a third of the (active) electorate voting for them. Labour believes first past the post serves them well, but it doesn’t, because they would have been leading a coalition government in the last several elections under Proportional Representation. Instead it requires Labour to b…

> Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. This is unfortunately not unique. India too has seen the rise of the right, and its democracy threatened and at a perilous stage. Many other countries have seen the rise of the right too. However, I feel this is a political pattern that can be observed historically and generationally, where the political spectrum switch between extremes of left and right…

When my side wins, democracy is healthy and vibrant. When the other side wins, it's faltering and corrupt.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#224

Post by mjfl »

webmobdev wrote: post #199
dignick wrote: post #145

Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. Our first past the post electoral system means the Tories can retain power with a third of the (active) electorate voting for them. Labour believes first past the post serves them well, but it doesn’t, because they would have been leading a coalition government in the last several elections under Proportional Representation. Instead it requires Labour to b…

> Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. This is unfortunately not unique. India too has seen the rise of the right, and its democracy threatened and at a perilous stage. Many other countries have seen the rise of the right too. However, I feel this is a political pattern that can be observed historically and generationally, where the political spectrum switch between extremes of left and right…

"democracy is under threat when people I don't like are democratically elected." Is it invisible to you how such statements are, themselves, bad for democracy?

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#225

Post by jimnotgym »

aidos wrote: post #194
narag wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electoral systems are very difficult to change. The party with enough votes to lead the change isn't going to be interested, because it's the system that put them in that position. Edit: So we're talking electoral systems, referenda have a big caveat. Usually you vote a goal, but you don't vote how it's going to be implemented. The brexit was sold as a measure against Brussels' regulation and taxes...

The Uk had a referendum in 2011 to change the system and voted fairly conclusively to stick with first past the post. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternat...

Worth remembering that the Tories only allowed the vote as part of the coalition deal, and then actively campaigned against it. The whole thing was a damp squib, and was designed to be

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#226

Post by mixtur2021 »

Another day, another anti UK/doomer post on HN.

Folks have touched upon this already but a real issue is the chattering classes can simply not get over Brexit. Everything is seen through the prism of either supporting remain or leave. Throw in some confirmation bias. The Economist is particularly guilty here. I don't follow this relish in talking your country down and having such click bait doomer titles - "Britain's demise". Such a bore.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#227

Post by Quarrelsome »

pifm_guy wrote: post #219

Britain is in a post-empire downfall, and has been for 120 years. If you want to see where it leads, see Portugal which is 50 years further ahead on that path.

I don't think the scale of Empires is anywhere near the same to make the two particularly comparable. Remember that Great Britain effectively bankrolled one side of the money incinerator that was the First Great War alone (at least for the first two years) which somewhat demonstrates the exceptional zenith of its power.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#228

Post by gghhzzgghhzz »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #190
notahacker wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the first person to criticise McDonnell and Corbyn's radical postures, but the idea that Labour's manifesto proposal to renationalise the railways, Royal Mail and some utilities is communism is utterly laughable. Somehow we managed state owned railways and utilities for basically the entire Cold War without ever once feeling tempted to join the Warsaw Pact, and the Royal Mail was a government agency for nearly 40…

Nationalisation with control handed to the workers . And of course there's also the little thing about McDonnell and Corbyn being Marxist and socialist. Again, too many people still seem not to be willing to see what's not even hidden. History should really be compulsory over the whole of secondary school. Edit: they had hinted it very strongly but did not mention it in the 2017 manifesto apart from calling to promot…

You are missing a few things here.

Firstly that involving workers in the ownership and running of a company is a successful model that is working in German for example. Focus on short term shareholder value is not good for employees or the company.

You are posting on a site that has a large percentage of people working in start-ups. Comments like your kind of goes completely against the audience.

Secondary, I've heard McDonnell describe himself as a Marxist. but he is also a politician. Unlike Corbyn he was the one to (incorrectly in my view) seek compromise and common ground with people who were seeking to undermine him. He was the key player in getting Labour to adopt a policy of second referendum, something that an ideological Marxist would certainly not go anywhere near, let alone drive.

There's no actual Marxist I know that would go anywhere near the EU.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#229

Post by monsecchris »

dignick wrote: post #145

Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. Our first past the post electoral system means the Tories can retain power with a third of the (active) electorate voting for them. Labour believes first past the post serves them well, but it doesn’t, because they would have been leading a coalition government in the last several elections under Proportional Representation. Instead it requires Labour to b…

> Instead it requires Labour to be a very broad house

This is a severe disconnection from reality, the Labour party is totally ideologically possessed. 52% of the population voted for Brexit and not a single Labour MP supports it. Not a single Labour MP would ever dream of criticising the NHS system. Not a single Labour MP said a bad word about BLM.

The Conservative party are so broad they have everything except actual conservatives.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#230

Post by JPKab »

nailer wrote: post #31
Mezzie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still interesting to think about given America's current gerontocracy. My last position put me in contact with a fair amount of local and state level politicians in the US and I'm very concerned about the talent bases/pipelines of the political class here. There but for the grace of God...

If you’re wondering too: gerontocracy is rule by the elderly. And that’s indeed a good description of the US right now.

We traded one wrinkly liar the media held accountable for another wrinkly liar the media views as their grandpa.
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