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Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

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221–230 of 279 posts

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#221

Until not that long ago I was a pretty happy Twitter user. I curated my follows (keeping them between 150 and 200), only followed people posting interesting , creative , or scientific things. When anyone started tweeting or retweeting low quality material, I simply unfollowed. Unfortunately, the devs at Twitter hate the way I use it. Nowadays ever 5th post or so on my timeline is from someone I do not follow, either…

Nitpick. It's not "the devs" who decide these things. It's the bosses.

You can pick on the devs for choosing to work at Twitter or other social media companies, but let's be clear: the developers aren't the ones calling the shots.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#222
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone takes shortcuts these days so by Godwin's law directly calling the other person on the internet with which you disagree a nazi is peak optimization /s On a serious note I think the problem is actually the heavy moderation and algorithmic bubble creation. Then you had certain famous and controversial people who operated above all bubbles and the different bubble started clashing. The only way I see to fix thi…

On a serious note I think the problem is actually the heavy moderation I think the problem is crude filtering falsely labeled moderation. What you'd want is a moderator who demands decent quality arguments on the topic at hand. What you have is just removal of everyone not agreeing with a given viewpoint and allowing intemperate advocates of the given viewpoint to make the position garbage.

> What you'd want is a moderator who demands decent quality arguments on the topic at hand.

In 280 characters?

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#223
post #14

I used to agree with you until I created a new Twitter account from scratch. I'm not American and I specifically put non-political things in my interests. Yet, the second I signed up I got the following: 1. A notification about a smug reply a rando made to a Republican Congressman. 2. Posts from a meme page with a Pepe the frog avatar showing homeless people fighting in San Francisco. 3. Somebody I don't follow accus…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#224
Call me a freeloader if you wish; I'd welcome the moniker. I use Twitter lists and Tweetdeck's filters to enjoy a firehose-free Twitter experience. I follow accounts from around the world representing a broad range of interests and views, and almost none of the problems listed by the originator of this thread.

Therefore I have to conclude that "the issues of Twitter" experienced by most users are intentional.

I also have to say that should Twitter make the mechanisms I rely on unavailable (definitely a possibility given the new CEO's track record), I will have no option but to leave Twitter. I'm not willing to subject myself to sort of user experience described by the originator of this thread.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#225
Here is what would make Twitter much better for me:

1. Lower the temperature of the discussion: simple, published rules like “you can use more than X(low number) expletives per Y(high number) words of text” and “you can not have ANY calls for violence” and

2. No censorship of the topics.

I think, this would restore public trust in the platform (but I am sure there are other, possibly equally good solutions that Twitter can come up with).

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#226
post #201
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it isn't a crime or spam then it is in fact disagreement. There is no inherent different from calling someone a "racist" or "nazi" to calling someone a "groomer". On Twitter these "slurs" are used by different sides (bubbles) but other than that there is no difference. It might be a baseless allegation or there could be more to it but either way it is clearly an opinion and disagreeing is fine no need to prevent a…

> What is so hard about the concept of allowing people to be wrong about things? Because democratic society requires us to agree on basic facts in order to function. "People are wrong about" things like: - who got more votes in the last US presidential election - whether future elections in the US will be fair - whether global warming is real - whether Democratic politicians are literal lizard people who molest child…

> Because democratic society requires us to agree on basic facts in order to function.

> - who got more votes in the last US presidential election

The Democrats delegitimized the outcome of the 2016 election, the Republicans the 2020, and yet we still have a functioning democracy. We're even about to have a round of elections in a few days!

> - whether global warming is real

Seriously?

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#227
post #14

I used to agree with you until I created a new Twitter account from scratch. I'm not American and I specifically put non-political things in my interests. Yet, the second I signed up I got the following: 1. A notification about a smug reply a rando made to a Republican Congressman. 2. Posts from a meme page with a Pepe the frog avatar showing homeless people fighting in San Francisco. 3. Somebody I don't follow accus…

> so it strongly recommends posts that are low on quality but high on emotion.

Yup.

In the 1930s movie "Meet John Doe", see how a newspaper can try to increase circulation by (a) publishing something, a continuing narrative, emotional (in the movie, a poor person frustrated with the economy and politics and writing a FAKE letter to the newspaper on their decision to commit suicide), (b) creating controversy, (c) encouraging arguments to start, should he or should he not, etc.

The continuing narrative idea was to encourage the controversy to run for some months. The idea of such a narrative was formulated by E. Bernays, as I recall, also in the 1930s. Later Bernays was an ad executive in the US.

Sooo, an old, 1930s or before, idea to create strong emotions, headaches, stomach aches, upchucks, anger, frustration, stress, depression, various individual psychological problems, various political and societal problems, was for the media to create long running, continuing controversy.

Net, whenever start to feel emotions from what see in the media, guess that 90+% of the time you have just been fooled, manipulated, exploited, jerked around by the media looking for eyeballs for ad revenue.

Recall the old characterization of media values, "If it bleeds, it leads."

My old description has been the media just wants to grab you, by the heart, the gut, below the belt, always below the shoulders, never between the ears.

Objective, credible, important information? Nearly never. Brainless, groundless, manipulative emotionalism? Nearly always.

Sooo, I deeply, profoundly, bitterly hate and despise the MSM (mainstream media) -- they want to deceive me, steal my time and energy. So, for some years, I've flatly refused to pay any attention to the MSM.

Solution for the MSM and the old techniques of journalism? Easy. People just ignore the MSM. That will cut off their supply of eyeballs and ad revenue and they will go out of business.

I posted more at

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33417798

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#228
1) Changing human nature is a much more difficult task than fixing some Twitter algorithms.

2) Modern technical means can affect human behavior on a large scale. For example, a certain northern country managed to influence elections in a certain rich country with a very modest investment in social media trolling. Or look at a certain very populous country. Everyone's views on social media are very harmonically aligned.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#229
post #201
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it isn't a crime or spam then it is in fact disagreement. There is no inherent different from calling someone a "racist" or "nazi" to calling someone a "groomer". On Twitter these "slurs" are used by different sides (bubbles) but other than that there is no difference. It might be a baseless allegation or there could be more to it but either way it is clearly an opinion and disagreeing is fine no need to prevent a…

> What is so hard about the concept of allowing people to be wrong about things? Because democratic society requires us to agree on basic facts in order to function. "People are wrong about" things like: - who got more votes in the last US presidential election - whether future elections in the US will be fair - whether global warming is real - whether Democratic politicians are literal lizard people who molest child…

> Because democratic society requires us to agree on basic facts in order to function.

“Agreement” is a voluntary act. If people don’t agree on fundamental facts, we need more dialog to reach agreement if possible, and mutual tolerance if not.

“Agreement” cannot be an involuntarily enforced mandate.

If people don’t agree, we cannot force them to agree by silencing dissenting voices. Even if such silencing worked in the short-term, it’s corrosive to society’s ability to discern truth.

Re: Tell HN: The issues of Twitter are not a technical problem to solve

#230
post #167
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get content which makes people happy and optimistic about something which they now want to buy OR you gather information on what actually makes people happy (or at least engaged in something other than arguing), and sell that information. Less culture wars, more aspirational/fitness/self-care/nature-travel/interior design/organic subscription box/hygge content.

Instagram already exists for the latter.

Yup. And it both seems to make more money and has less political squabbling than Twitter though it's a little hard to tell when Meta rolls up its stats for the Family of Apps. I'm not sure Instagram users are actually happy, but they at least project an appearance of happiness.

It's not like Twitter is committed to being original in all of its concepts. Fleets were clearly chasing Instagram Stories, and Spaces were copying Clubhouse. It clearly understood for a bit that if it wants to grow it needs to do some of the things that attract users to other platforms.

The point is, there are technical and product choices that could change Twitter, how people use it, and the tenor of content there. Meeting both of onion2k and bckr's concerns (less hateful recommended content, generating revenue) are achievable for a social network; successful examples exists. What's _not_ proven is whether we can have a space for dialogue over civic issues which doesn't devolve into vitriol.

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