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FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

nytimes.com

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Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#221

Post by themitigating »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #196
themitigating wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know they cause more trouble than they solve? They've solved thousands of missing childen, sexual predators, kidnappings, etc

FBI targets susceptible people and surrounds them with informants that encourage the target to commit a crime, but somehow failed to take action against the 9/11 hijackers. CIA tortures people overseas. EDIT: CIA also arms militia groups that are against, or later turn on, American interests. NSA has a habit of spying on every American. (Remember Snowden?) ATF enforces all the weird gun laws, like how an AR15 is some…

I don't care about examples, you said it's more trouble than good. Prove that

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#222

Post by mcguire »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #119
Eupraxias wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Right of Force". At some point, freedom is restricted at gunpoint. Government works this way because it is logical that it do so. This is why it is critical to have government established "of, by, and for" the constituency - because even in a best-case scenario, corruption will get in the cracks and make them bigger, etc.

I'm going to expose my political bias here: I think the only way to prevent the corruption and expansion is to keep the government small by limiting the amount of resources that are under its direct control. Just offering "of, by, and for" won't do it if there are millions of people on the payroll. Of course, the Somali government is very small and Somali people are very free, and they aren't doing very well either.

Somalia demonstrates exactly the problem with that approach: power vacuums don't last any longer than any other vacuum, if there's something around to fill it.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#224

Post by soared »

elzbardico wrote: post #140

The FBI/CIA/NSA complex is the American version of the Soviet KGB. Wall Street is our Politburo, and we split the CPSU into two parties because it gives better optics.

Yes, every country has intelligence agencies. Aligning them with kgb implies they’re bad guys, which certainly Russian citizens can make the reverse claims.

This doesn’t add anything to the discussion and is akin to a Facebook meme post without the image.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#225

Post by CamperBob2 »

kodyo wrote: post #198
jstarfish wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any credible examples of any of this actually happening? The only times I've ever seen this card played is as punishment for deliberately misleading agents and wasting their time, not getting inconsequential facts wrong. ...like the high-profile Gabby Petito murder case, where Brian Laundrie's parents lied to investigators to conceal their son's whereabouts after the murder. Or that other recent one where…

Gen. Flynn was prosecuted for something the FBI claimed he said in an FBI investigation that he didn't say, and the FBI slow-walked producing the exculpatory evidence.

Then again, Gen. Flynn is a threat to civilization. Is there any way they can both lose?

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#226

Post by threatofrain »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #91
fsociety999 wrote: post #62

The FBI is more or less a legalized criminal organization that is funded by U.S. taxpayers, but is unelected and unaccountable to them. This article is from 2013, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that this behavior has changed: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/04/fbi-in... The important part to consider: > The FBI gave its informants permission to break the law at least 5,658 times in a single…

They also have the seemingly unique and blatantly unconstitutional power to imprison you for ""lying"" to them. The actual wording/charge is "providing false statements", which means anything that they can later suggest is untrue . This is why you should never, ever speak with anyone associated with the FBI even if they are being "friendly". Say they knock at the door and have questions for you about your shady neigh…

In general you shouldn't talk to law enforcement because they're allowed to lie and lying to them is a crime, whether we're talking about police or FBI.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#227

Post by RetpolineDrama »

tarboreus wrote: post #204
RetpolineDrama wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have the seemingly unique and blatantly unconstitutional power to imprison you for ""lying"" to them. The actual wording/charge is "providing false statements", which means anything that they can later suggest is untrue . This is why you should never, ever speak with anyone associated with the FBI even if they are being "friendly". Say they knock at the door and have questions for you about your shady neigh…

Let's be real. If they want to mess with you, they don't need to play weird games with you. They're not genies, and they're mostly unaccountable to anyone not their bosses or highly connected individuals. They can not pass go, collect $200 anyway, and mess with you directly.

For sure they could. My only real defense is that I'm just not that interesting I think.

It sure would be nice to live in a country where we could have reasonable certainty that agents of the people's collective will (government) would act in good faith, and were bound by reasonable laws ensuring so.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#228

Post by RetpolineDrama »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #217
techwizrd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe this is the case, but I am also not a lawyer. The _actual_ wording of 18 USC § 1001 is "[...] knowingly and willfully" "(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact; (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; [...]" [0], not simply "providing false statements." The DOJ must show that the statement was false, the fact…

I have personally been threatened by FBI agents with threats of being charged for "making false statements" to compel me to divulge information on an investigation. I believe it may be a common tool in their playbook based on how quickly they utilized it.

Holy cow, that sounds terrifying. How did you handle it? Had you already made statements prior to the threat that (in hindsight) were bait/designed to trap you?

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#229

Post by mcguire »

iudqnolq wrote: post #168
arcticfox wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you specifically select the non-population adjusted list? Top 10 Countries with the Highest Rate of Police Killings (per 10 million residents — U.S. ranks 33rd): - Venezuela — 1829.9 (2018) - El Salvador — 1703.8 (2017) - Syria — 819 (2019) - Philippines — 556.5 (2016-21 avg) - Nicaragua — 522.7 (2018) - Jamaica — 472.7 (2018) - Trinidad and Tobago — 339.7 (2014) - Brazil — 276.2 (2019) - Bahamas — 275.7 (201…

Why did you specifically select the portion of that list that doesn't include the US? It shows the US is far worse than any rich country, as I claimed. Mexico, Rwanda, Sudan, and Mali rank 34-37 https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-ki... Edit: The closest rich countries are - Malta, at ~2/3 the US - Luxumberg, ~ 1/2 - Canada, ~1/3 Malta is notably an anomaly: I can't think of any other rich democ…

As an aside, I find many of these numbers to be very untrustworthy. For example, India has the note, "Includes 1,606 deaths listed as occurring in "judicial custody," but not due to police, military, or intelligence agency activity." Out of 1,731 deaths in 2019. Syria, "Syria is involved in a civil war".

Malta and Luxembourg had one (1) killing each. Statistical outliers, and all that.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#230

Post by themitigating »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #175
themitigating wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So post ww2 for the US? We've still one of the best counties to live in. Edit. Are you claiming social programs are created to flex your country? Do you have proof of this?

I am not claiming that social programs are a flex. The military is a flex. Post WW2 for the US, post-Victorian era in the UK, post-Napoleon in France, post-Tarism in Russia, post-oil-boom in Scandanavia, etc. Countries with big social programs are still great to live in, but I only mean that the social programs and big government are clearly not part of the reason why those countries became rich. The big government i…

That doesn't mean a big government isn't responsible for maintaining that wealth which is why I mentioned post ww2 us.
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