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Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

fortune.com

221–230 of 260 posts

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect. https://static.twentyoverten.com/5980d16bbfb1c93238ad9c24/rJ...

Yeah, no. Us normal working stiffs don't typically have a $20M windfall we're looking to invest. That's a whole other ballgame.

Yeah, people often talk about DCA like there's an alternative. You earn money, you invest a bit... I guess you could borrow money to invest a lump sum, that would be unwise.

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you liquidate your portfolio you're going to have to recognize (pay tax on) capital gains.

Good point, but how about for retirement portfolios? I'm trying to point out the irrationality of it - after all, I don't think people desist from liquidating only for tax/fee reasons. "I would sell everything today and DCA back in over the next year if not for those pesky taxes and fees! (shakes fist at sky)"

Having thought about it a bit more - I'm not sure what motivation I'd have to sell then immediately DCA back in, my position would end up in the same place!

If at the beginning of 2022, I'd had a crystal ball saying "stocks will crash in March then rebound in December", then I have a motivation: I do want to switch to a stock-light position, hold that for a while, then move back. In that situation I'd be inclined to DCA on the way out in January, as well as DCA back in during December.

I want to reduce variance more than I want to increase the expected value.

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the AI stuff really solves things like affordable housing or keeping wages up with inflation (or addressing inflation). It's not going to magically give us more energy without environmental impacts, or settle conflicts between countries. Building another AI-marketed SaaS only benefits people who don't need those benefits. In all likelihood, it'll just give us more bullshit jobs.

It might, you can't possibly know that. If the coming AIs make humans twice as productive, then we've boosted our output tremendously.

One way that we become twice as productive is to use half the labor. This is my fear that AI brings about—not huge gains for society, but huge gains for a small minority.

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#224
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is buy and hold a "pessimal strategy"?

IDK what OP believes, but to me, the "Boglehead" strategy is great, with giant caveats. Most devotees I talk to get visibly frustrated when I suggest that you can look at larger macroeconomic forces, like COVID, supply chain issues, Fed manipulations(both positive and negative) and make educated predictions on the direction of stocks. My guess is that these are folks who just don't want the frustration of learning ab…

The problem with timing the market is you have to be right twice - you have to choose when to sell and when to buy back in.

On the other hand, DCA'ing you way through a market decline and recovery will always leave you in a better position than one where the crash never happened.

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#225
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Druck isn't one of those types. Bill Ackman is. Druck is just known to change his opinion when the facts change or he comes to a new conclusion. There's some anecdote about him completely flipping on a position when going in and out on an elevator ride that I can't quite remember. By the way, sideways means that the stock market is going nowhere long or short. IMO, currencies and commodities are a far better pla…

While you may know the guy better, notice this Druck comment comes at a time when the long term buy-and-hold thinking is at its weakest point. A slightly respectable guru saying this sort of things is enough to make some people sell.

Druck was short the S&P jan-march and covered, he was looking for a second entry if it was given. His position isn't a secret.

Also, forget him saying it. He says a lot of things at a lot of different times. The real people to question are the ones making his headline known. CNBC/MarketWatch/Cramer et all are the biggest shills for banks. If you remember, they were all pushing Dalio's cash is trash line--which he has been saying since about 2018--HARD at the peak.

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#226
post #84

And Michael Burry has been predicting crashes every few years since the 2008 one. And Bill Ackman predicted 'hell is coming' at the onset of the pandemic and made $2B [0]. And there were US Senators that also did possibly illegal things to pull money out of the market before the public knew about the pandemic. Outside of disclosures filed with the SEC, stock trading is anonymous yet they will have all sorts of headli…

>So all players in the market are just selling everything across the market to the tune of -1.4% because FedEx is having issues? FedEx's issues is that their volume is down massively. High (nay, accelerating) rates of trade are the foundation of the modern economy. If trade starts to slow down, or, Lord forbid, decline , then yes that can have massive negative repercussions.

> down massively

23.52B Expected Revenue

23.20B Reported Reported

Difference: ~1%

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think most of these investors don’t really understand how close we are to have very useful AI and what it’s impact will be. We are roughly on the verge of another industrial revolution Tell me more. I'm willing to be persuaded by this position but I'm skeptical. What specific AI breakthroughs do you think will happen on what timelines?

Just take AI assisted programming, if it makes devs twice as effective at their jobs then its massively increased the output of our most profitable industry. This is just one field, AI will impact the output of most fields

I'm a dev. It won't make us more productive. Our limitations are not how much code can we write, it's how many requirements can we gather.

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#228
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might, you can't possibly know that. If the coming AIs make humans twice as productive, then we've boosted our output tremendously.

One way that we become twice as productive is to use half the labor. This is my fear that AI brings about—not huge gains for society, but huge gains for a small minority.

Again, unknown. If we look at history, technology that increases productivity is initially disruptive, then just frees up people to tackle bigger problems.

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just take AI assisted programming, if it makes devs twice as effective at their jobs then its massively increased the output of our most profitable industry. This is just one field, AI will impact the output of most fields

I'm a dev. It won't make us more productive. Our limitations are not how much code can we write, it's how many requirements can we gather.

Eh, code also takes a whole lot of time to get right, and AI will reduce that significantly.

Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade

#230
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 65% drop in price over 17 years is "only" about 6% per year. The S&P500 annual dividend yield during 1966-1982 was not much less than 6%, especially during the latter half of that period. If you look at an inflation-adjusted total return chart (as opposed to just price), the actual drop in investment value was much smaller. I think "flat" isn't a terrible way to describe it. https://www.multpl.com/s-p-500-dividend-…

Total return (dividends reinvested, inflation adjusted) is -13.4% for 1965-1983.

That’s not terrible considering there aren’t likely a lot of better investments in that environment
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