There seems to be a lot of bickering along the lines of "business is business, and he should keep his promise of business"... Which doesn't quite make sense to me. If I were him, I'd charge all yall $80, but up it to $90 if you sent me an email about free upgrades. Buy it, or don't buy it. You love the product. you ponied up for a mac. I suspect somehow I'd sell enough to not be able to give a rats ass what you think. That's business my friends.
I want to pay for TextMate 2
221–230 of 233 posts
Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're making the same faulty assumption that Marco does: that everyone who bought TextMate is a fellow software developer living in a wealthy nation. Many of the "cheapskates in here" are happy to pay twice, but recognize that it's a privilege to be able to do so.
Bro, c'mon now. I hate using this argument, but if you can afford a macbook you can definitely pony up $60 for your main development tool . Dude's running a business, not a charity. Shit, I use vim. If you're so screwed for cash there are a couple of first class alternatives. EDIT: I use a macbook too. I think it's a great dev platform. It only represents about 5% of my yearly income, though. I doubt I'd be using it…
It has nothing to do with being a 'cheapskate'.
It also has nothing to do with the amount.
Next to the 'buy' button in 2005 there was text along the lines of "upgrades are free all the way to 2.0". Changing that now, added to the fact that we were all expecting much needed updates in 2008, is just a dick move. It (further) damages any confidence the community had in TextMate.
The fact that I would gladly pay $200 for my dream editor (even though I've already paid for TM1 and ST2, I'm lucky that this would be a practical purchase for me) is just not relevant. As you say, he is running a business. A business that made a promise about what buying the product would get you. End of story.
If I buy a car that has a big sign: "FREE WINTER TIRES", and 6 years later I'm still not seeing those friggen tires, does the fact that I can afford to just buy them make the dealership any less shady?
Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Part of actually owning up to your mistakes is accepting the consequences gracefully. He shouldn't have made the promise in the first place, but now that he has the only responsible thing to do is to fulfill that. He can say it was a bad idea, and ask for donations if he wants, but he shouldn't go back on his word. His fuckup, he's the one that has to deal with the consequences.
>Part of actually owning up to your mistakes is accepting the consequences gracefully. The consequence is going bankrupt or not going bankrupt. >His fuckup, he's the one that has to deal with the consequences. I honestly don't understand how this gets people so riled up. Sure, you have the right to your own opinion. I'd get it if it cost $600. If you're a professional developer in North America though, $60 is a damn…
How can you not understand that $60 is huge money to some people? It doesn't matter the price, it's expensive to someone. He made a promise about what that $60 buys you (namely, TM1 and TM2), so he better deliver.
Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) "discover new functionality" is a "learn", not a "use". 2) Vim can have menus too if you want them, and a mouse to go with them... 3) I learn new things about vim all the time without reading the documentation. A massive community makes that quite easy.
>1) "discover new functionality" is a "learn", not a "use". I'm talking about application usability. When I say something is hard to "use" I roughly mean "how easy it is to pick up" and "how easy it is to use everyday". It's a sign of poor application design when you have to learn it instead of merely using it. After six years of regular vim use I still find myself constantly forgetting key shortcuts and which featur…
Just for the sake of curosity, which key shortcuts and features do you forget?
Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2
#225There seems to be a lot of bickering along the lines of "business is business, and he should keep his promise of business"... Which doesn't quite make sense to me. If I were him, I'd charge all yall $80, but up it to $90 if you sent me an email about free upgrades. Buy it, or don't buy it. You love the product. you ponied up for a mac. I suspect somehow I'd sell enough to not be able to give a rats ass what you think…
That is an... interesting approach.
I, for one, who would gladly pay for TM2 separately had I not already purchased a license for it, would not appreciate that kind of attitude and make sure never to do business with Macromates again.
Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I was trying to say is that every tool should be evaluated using 'productivity gain vs cost' framework. It may well be that for some people productivity gains of TextMate vs emacs/vim/other editor are small and therefore paying any price for TextMate is unreasonable, since the alternatives are free. But in a case where TextMate does yield to substantial productivity gain, "$60 is too much" is a wrong mental mode…
Couldn't agree more. The fact that so few developers are willing to pay for good tools is why we end up with tools like Eclipse.
The point is that we all did pay for good tools. We paid for TM1, and TM1 included the promise of a free update to TM2. I already own TM2, see?
Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2
#227I'm sure the author of the posting could simply donate to the dev via paypal. It's similar to those "rich" people who are demanding to pay higher taxes. That's a nonsense argument because they can donate to the US Treasury just as a dev could donate to the TextMate guy. I am tired of people suggesting to other people how to spend everyone else's money. If you want to pay more -- do it yourself.
For the rest of us, I'll pay what I'm required and donate if I feel so inclined. I'd personally rather donate to the Tiny Wings guy simply because paying $60 for a text editor is fairly steep, if you aren't getting the version 2 update for free. And Tiny Wings has better music. Logic Studio is only $299, compared to a text editor's $60 and Xcode is free. The amount of coding that went into Logic is light years beyond TextMate, but Apple knows that if they charged $1000 for it (a fair price based on feature set, they'd lose more revenue than charging $299.) I'm not a business school guy, but I do know a thing or two about demand elasticity. Try charging $4.99 for an app in the App Store and charge $1.99 -- you'll make more money at $1.99, unless it's some highly niche product; TextMate is far from highly niche. It's ubiquitous.
I have paid for TextMate and have no problems doing so, but I'll be damned if some jackass suggests that we should pay more. That's a business decision to be made by the TextMate dev, not some user who likely has very little experience in selling software to the public. No offense to anyone, but based on the posting, it appears that the author has little understanding of demand curves, not to mention contractual agreements.
Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're making the same faulty assumption that Marco does: that everyone who bought TextMate is a fellow software developer living in a wealthy nation. Many of the "cheapskates in here" are happy to pay twice, but recognize that it's a privilege to be able to do so.
Bro, c'mon now. I hate using this argument, but if you can afford a macbook you can definitely pony up $60 for your main development tool . Dude's running a business, not a charity. Shit, I use vim. If you're so screwed for cash there are a couple of first class alternatives. EDIT: I use a macbook too. I think it's a great dev platform. It only represents about 5% of my yearly income, though. I doubt I'd be using it…
Xcode is my "main development tool." And it was free.
Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2
#229I will be paying for the upgrade. It's a full digit release that's been a kagillion years in the making. I've gotten my $'s worth out of all the 1.X's to date.
Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) "It's a sign of poor application design when you have to learn it instead of merely using it." No, what this actually is a sign of is disingenuous arguing. I have conceded that vim is harder to learn. What I do not concede is that it is otherwise hard to use. You understand what I am saying, but being purposely difficult. 2) If vim's menus were to cover everything vim can do, then we would have ourselves a usabili…
1) It's just been my experience, when designing and discussing user interfaces, to include "how discoverable" an application is as a factor to how "usable" they are. A LOT OF FEATURES that experts can use does not necessarily make something usable. If this falls outside of the purview of what you consider to be satisfactory, that's fine by me. 2) Not really. You'd have a few context menus, and maybe an inspector wind…
"Few people are reading that to relax after work."
The popularity of vim screencasts might suggest otherwise.