Web3 is going just great • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3 is going just great

#221

Post by fab1an » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

valeness wrote: post #180

fab1an wrote: post #48

I'm flabberghasted at the amount of hate this space is getting from parts of the dev community and in particular HN. Web3 has its fair share of issues, but there's community and energy in the space that I haven't seen online since the early days of the world wide web. Consider this: if you are absolutely, 100% convinced that all of this is bogus, is going to go nowhere (despite the high number of talented individuals…

What net-beneficial applications of crypto would you suggest I look at if I wanted to re-evaluate my perspective on crypto? I was a very early crypto fan, loved talking about decentralized trustless networks, legal smart contracts, that kind of thing. But after years and years of just getting burned by the space being taken over by financial people spouting cultist rhetoric, the space has lost it's shimmer to me. Ask…

Take a look at Loot project by Dom Hof (the creator of vine, but now mostly known for Loot...:)

It is exactly how you describe, but so so much more: why limit your Halo / skyrim character to one game world when you could take it into any other format and play with it there? NFT composability is a huge topic and extremely exciting in terms of these optionalities. Again: https://www.lootproject.com/

Also see my comment above with some more examples in response to another question...

Re: Web3 is going just great

#222

Post by ipaddr » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:30 PM UTC

Yizahi wrote: post #183

leadingthenet wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no underlying value in cryptocurrency Of course, there is a value: it's a decentralized write-only database that can be used for things like proof of ownership without the requirement of a central authority. A famous use-case is the illicit online drug trade, which cannot currently be achieved (to my knowledge) with fiat currencies. It might never replace government-backed currencies (or it just might, who…

No, it can't be used for "proof of ownership" at all. Crypto only barely works because it lives inside blockchain completely. Anything external to the blockchain (which is practically everything) can't be verified using blockchain. Only using some centralized and opaque/corrupt additions to the blockchain some rights can be maybe transferred (but not enforced even then), but at that point blockchain is useless can be…

It can be used for proof of ownership not to be confused with proof of identity because anyone can check the public blockchain to determine that funds sent from account a belongs to whoever setup account a.

It allows proof ownership without proof of identity.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#223

Post by orange8 » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:30 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #73

fab1an wrote: post #48

I'm flabberghasted at the amount of hate this space is getting from parts of the dev community and in particular HN. Web3 has its fair share of issues, but there's community and energy in the space that I haven't seen online since the early days of the world wide web. Consider this: if you are absolutely, 100% convinced that all of this is bogus, is going to go nowhere (despite the high number of talented individuals…

> I'm flabberghasted at the amount of hate this space is getting from parts of the dev community and in particular HN. Web3 has its fair share of issues, but there's community and energy in the space that I haven't seen online since the early days of the world wide web. If you're familiar with the space, you have to at least admit that it's filled to the brim with grifters and people looking to acquire life-changing…

> people looking to acquire life-changing wealth for themselves by hyping things that they have a vested financial interest in

What's wrong with hyping things you've invested in, or seeking life-changing wealth for yourself?

Re: Web3 is going just great

#224

Post by ShamelessC » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:30 PM UTC

pshc wrote: post #78

Why blame web3? Proof of work (Bitcoin specifically) is the entity pouring lighter fluid on the planet. Bitcoin isn't even part of web3. If we want to realistically reduce CO2 emissions by cryptocurrencies, displacing Bitcoin and other proof-of-work chains is step one. Thankfully this seems to be happening. Check out any chart of BTC-ETH. With power-efficient proof of stake coming next year I'm hoping we can reduce t…

Proof of stake simply won't work without some sort of proof-of-work coin backing it. I'm sure the Ethereum people would love for you to believe otherwise - but there's a reason they keep punting to "one more year"; they can't do it.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#225

Post by fab1an » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:31 PM UTC

andybp85 wrote: post #168

fab1an wrote: post #48

I'm flabberghasted at the amount of hate this space is getting from parts of the dev community and in particular HN. Web3 has its fair share of issues, but there's community and energy in the space that I haven't seen online since the early days of the world wide web. Consider this: if you are absolutely, 100% convinced that all of this is bogus, is going to go nowhere (despite the high number of talented individuals…

there's some cool stuff going on in the NFT space, e.g. my favorite band has been selling NFTs that come with access to stuff like concert videos and private events. the idea of NFTs as access to a community i think has merit - hey, if you buy a Porsche, you can go to Porsche owners clubs and stuff. nothing wrong with that. that being said, the main reason I haven't bought one (i'd love to see the concert) is you hav…

I'd say you owe it to yourself to use some play money to really just play with it for the sake of learning and playing. Worst case you'll continue to think it may not be worth it in which case you've lost some money on some NFT but have gained knowledge in return. I predict something will happen though, and you might find that the space is actually extremely interesting.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#226

Post by xtracto » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

valeness wrote: post #180

fab1an wrote: post #48

I'm flabberghasted at the amount of hate this space is getting from parts of the dev community and in particular HN. Web3 has its fair share of issues, but there's community and energy in the space that I haven't seen online since the early days of the world wide web. Consider this: if you are absolutely, 100% convinced that all of this is bogus, is going to go nowhere (despite the high number of talented individuals…

What net-beneficial applications of crypto would you suggest I look at if I wanted to re-evaluate my perspective on crypto? I was a very early crypto fan, loved talking about decentralized trustless networks, legal smart contracts, that kind of thing. But after years and years of just getting burned by the space being taken over by financial people spouting cultist rhetoric, the space has lost it's shimmer to me. Ask…

I always say blockchain is just another database tech.

Are you excited by Cassandra, cockroach db , scylla or similar technologies? Then you can be similarly excited with Blockhain databases.

The concensus mechanisms in public blockchains are an interesting mechanism from the purely academic PoV. But yeah... what is happening now is like if a bunch of non-technical marketing and sales people took MongoDB in a MLM campaign.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#227

Post by lawtalkinghuman » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

deltarholamda wrote: post #94

trunnell wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the math and incentives are there. Can you elaborate on this? The best critiques of blockchain tech, cryptocurrencies, NFTs, DeFi, etc. describe fatal flaws at the core of those technologies. For example, the lack of monetary policy and regulations, privacy and security shortcomings, and high transaction costs. It'd be great to read a positive analysis of the core merits (the math and the incentives) and how th…

Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit, as I see it. That has some value, and NFTs are kind of the perfect vehicle to use the technology. But does it have any practical use? That's the question. NFTs are hot right now as an investment vehicle, or as a way for artists to sell unique creations (leading to investment vehicles, I suppose). I'm not sold on the utility, long term.

> Decentralized proof of ownership

I mean, the 'ownership' is as real as "buy a plot of land on Mars" scams.

An inefficient distributed database filled with assertions of legally unenforceable pseudoproperty rights seems somewhat underwhelming.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#228

Post by erulabs » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

lapinot wrote: post #205

erulabs wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you'll roll your eyes at this response, but a large chunk of economists don't believe there is value in anything. Your definition of "value" might mean "utility" or "what the US treasury says this is worth", or something else entirely. Starting a discussion with "well, it doesn't have any value" is more or less meaningless, and borders on economically illiterate, excuse the harshness. My stuffed animal from…

> I'm sure you'll roll your eyes at this response, but a large chunk of economists don't believe there is value in anything. Food and shelter have value which is pretty near to objective. In fact it is routinely used to compare economic levels throughout history or societies. In fact it's quite useful to distinguish market price from usage (intrinsic) value. Usage value is variable from individual to individual, but…

While pragmatically what you've said is entirely true - if we treat the subject with some rigor it's extremely easy to find examples of people who have valued food and shelter at zero. What of the self-immolating buddhist? They valued Tibet's freedom over their own life, and certainly over food and shelter.

So sure, most reasonable people would agree on food and water - but that's introducing a very very powerful new actor - your ability to judge other peoples actions as reasonable or rational. If you reserve that right - then sure, let's call crypto irrational - let's stand on the sidelines and say "well I wouldn't do that!" - let's start building the hierarchy of "reasonable values". I'm only suggesting that our ability to call someone else's valuation irrational behavior is dubious at best and aggressively violent, the birth of social engineering, the sourge of humanity, at worst (hyperbole maybe, but maybe not).

That impulse to guide "rationality" is exactly why we have modern monetary policy, and the only philosophical reason to like cryptocurrencies: a well designed, well distributed immutable ledger is more or less immune from such "guidance".

Edit: Obviously, I disagree strongly with the labor theory of value. I don't have anything handy, but there is a lot written on this (and I think the labor theory of value is fairly well demolished!). Let me know and I'd be happy to send links!

Re: Web3 is going just great

#229

Post by AlexandrB » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

carlosdp wrote: post #143

beebeepka wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mhmmm. Remind us again, which country us by far the biggest polluter per capita on the planet? It's not "Asia". I think it's the country you are from.

The planet doesn't really care about "per capita" though, just total effect. By that logic, a country that has only 1M citizens but is highly industrious and has more pollutant side-effects per capita for that reason should get all the attention even if it's total contribution is less than 1%. Doesn't make sense to me if your goal is to actually stop climate change, as opposed to just hand wringing.

Per-capita footprint absolutely does matter. Otherwise how can you compare countries with vastly different populations like Iceland and India? And on a per-capita basis the North American lifestyle produces way more carbon than the Southeast Asian one.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#230

Post by papito » Tue, Dec 14, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

systemvoltage wrote: post #199

papito wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you do have a horse, if you live on Earth (I am not being snarky). World's democracies are backsliding, while we are all trading monkey NFTs.

I agree, democracies are getting hammered. But it’s not because we are busy with experimental blockchain tech. That said - I found your response deeply unpleasant and imposing. Now I do have a horse to ignore you from telling me what to think and do. Think deeply about what you just did. “If you’re on the sidelines and not playing the game, you’re an enemy”. That sounds exactly opposite of democracy. It sounds like A…

I honestly cannot make sense of this. I said that it affects you, and you will have to care, whether you want to or not. In what way did I say you were the enemy?

Just curious, are you at a college/university, or fresh out of?