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Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

nytimes.com

221–230 of 364 posts

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#221

What about five days but 6 hours a day? How is that compared to four day workweek?

You still need to do your full commute every day, twice a day. So you don't get the full range of personal time available by reducing your hours. You also lose the advantage of having a free day during office hours for personal appointments. I would also argue that (for me at least), a 6 hours day will be just as stressful as a 7 hour day.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#222

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

There's power in a union.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#223
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't uncommon in industrial situations to shut the plant down for two weeks or so around Christmas/New Years. Since A: The staff want it off and B: It gives a good window to do heavy maintaince and such

Who does that maintenance?

Hopefully split off among staff so nobody works more than 1 or 2 days during those 2 weeks off, plus they get a bonus.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#224
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you avoided engaging at all with my comment. I explicitly commented that the safety nets and retirement system are not perfect and could be better, but that I believed minimum wage was not a solution. Increasing the minimum wage isn't going to get more people just short of retirement health insurance.

Why would I pay you more than I have to if I know you're desperate and have few (or none) other options? Mind if I pay you in scrip?

I don't believe in your good faith desire to discuss. I've said above I believe there should be a minimum wage, but that it's a crappy lever for the groups that you describe and that there are better ones for different subgroups (social safety nets, reducing the supply of labor by shortening work week).

Instead, I get a bunch of strawmen that have nothing to do with what I said.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#226
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term. If we shorten the nominal workweek to 36 hours before overtime is required (and encourage this to be in the form of 4x9 or 9/2 * 8): * Supply of labor will fall, increasing equilibrium pay for everyone * Everyone's quality of life goes up * Traffic and environmental impacts from commuting s…

You need both: A minimum wage ensures a wage of enough income someone can pay for basic needs (housing, food, health, etc) and ratcheting down the work week distributes productivity gains of capital to workers in aggregate. The former is, arguably, more tenable politically at the moment ("Fight for $15" and so on), the latter likely in the future as the electorate (and the beliefs around work and its contribution to…

> A minimum wage ensures a wage of enough income someone can pay for basic needs (housing, food, health, etc)

This isn't really a criticism of your comment, but I've always felt that this is a convenient supporting argument that obscures so much nuance that it is actually harmful to the broader goal of more fair wages. There are three huge assumptions that a statement like "an hourly wage should be enough income for basic needs" obscures:

1. that the person is employable (I don't think it's necessarily good to economically guarantee that severely disabled people are forced out of the workplace, even if they have other support systems to guarantee their needs)

2. that the person works a certain number of hours. ($100/hr is not livable if you work one hour per week.)

3. that a person has an assumed set of needs and an assumed support system (different life circumstances require different incomes to meet basic needs)

Everyone deserves to afford their basic needs, regardless of any of these confounding factors. Much of our worst poverty is because of one of these factors, not a variable as simplistic as hourly wage. Wages should be fair, but basic needs should be for everyone regardless of their ability to work a 9-to-5. While I do think we need some upwards pressure on wages, I also think social safety nets are a more equitable way to ensure basic needs are met. And we don't need to let employers off the hook for paying the bill, we can tax them to do this.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#227

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

According to The Atlantic, religion started the weekend/5 day workweek, not the IWW.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/08/where-t...

In fact, I cannot find any source at all that says the IWW caused the weekend.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#228

I always found this quote from The Wealth of Nations to be quite insightful and was one of those surprising moments reading the actual text: "It will be found, I believe, in every sort of trade, that the man who works so moderately, as to be able to work constantly, not only preserves his health the longest, but, in the course of the year, executes the greatest quantity of work."

I think that is just saying to work smarter, not harder. I don't think it's saying put in fewer hours. The "as to be able to work constantly" seems to be vital here.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#229
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the company I work for shuts our offices down from the 24th to the 2nd. Engineers submit availability for on-call schedules, and get a gift card for each on-call day they're responsible for. I feel very spoiled, but I think this is generally a trend amongst west-coast tech companies? I've had a similar experience at previous places, and it seemed like the rationale for the holiday…

As long as "elsewhere" is SV or some other big city, that grass will never be green enough for me.

SV is a big suburbs, not a city. SF (and Oakland) are medium sized cities.
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