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Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

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Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#221
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So stocks are randomly awarded to miners? Like any stock or each stock is its own chain? The stocks are not backed in any other way?

My understanding is that they're smart contracts that are collateralised by cryptocurrency.

Sounds like "stock collapses: I win, stock rises: you get the collateral or the gains, whatever is lower"

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#222
post #189

So what generates these "synthetic" stocks? It doesn't sound like futures or simple bets. From the article, its almost sounds like they're almost selling NFTs of a photograph of a stock created form whole cloth. That can't be right, can it? Surely its backed by something?

It's described here: https://docs.synthetix.io/litepaper

Some users, called stakers, put up collateral, and in return the contract mints a synthetic asset. Stakers can destroy ("burn") the synthetic asset to unlock their collateral. The exchange rate is based on price feeds that oracles publish to the blockchain. There is an incentive for stakers to mint or burn the synthetic asset until its price matches the one published by the oracle.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#223
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I think that's very likely. The closer DeFi gets to traditional markets the more likely enforcement is coming.

What are some possible enforcement mechanisms against Ethereum DeFi smart contracts?

The greater Ethereum community accepts to put restrictions into place, or the US/EU/China puts sanctions on Eth owners and traders. You get to either move to Sealand, or accept restrictions.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#224

> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. I find it really weird how crypto folks keep pretending that financial regulation is an obviously bad thing, as opposed to restrictions put in place in response to real problems

Ayn Rand libertarians and people with a massive Dunning-Kruger effect who didn't go past economy 101 form a significant part of cryptocurrency proponents.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#225
post #7

>Binance may have violated securities rules when it issued the tokenized shares of Tesla, MicroStrategy Inc. and Coinbase, BaFin said in April. Microstrategy Inc. So just to be clear, they're created a synthetic crypto-instrument to track the performance of a share that is something like >90% correlated with BTC (since MSTR is basically a leveraged BTC bet now). This is absolutely snake eating it's own tail kinds of…

I don't feel bad for Mark Cuban - a sucker who should have known better - but clearly if his team fell for it than its good evidence the entire system needs much heavier regulation. I don't want to have to deal with the societal problems/have my taxes go to a bailout when there's billion dollar scams affecting average workers, a pension fund, or minority first-time investors.

I think your worries are in the wrong place. I'm more worried about the FED bailing out the banks and companies too big to fail who have ventured into crypto

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#226

> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. I find it really weird how crypto folks keep pretending that financial regulation is an obviously bad thing, as opposed to restrictions put in place in response to real problems

Isn't it also weird that crypto enthusiasts assume that you obviously can't trust a central clearing house (or similar mechanism) when they have been working well for hundreds of years? In numerous cases humans trust institutions for certain things, and those institutions are usually strongly incentivized to act honorably, and do so. And when they don't, the court system works pretty well. At least in the countries w…

Neither of the two hold water if you look at how Chinese institutions dealt with the Ant IPO and recently the Didi fiasco and probably many more if you look.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a synthetic stock which is overcollateralized by stablecoins. So for example, if $100 dollars worth of the stock is issued, someone else had to lock up $150 dollars worth of USD to issue it. And when the price rises (and hence collateralization ratio drops), the issuer has to constantly top up collateral or run the risk of them being liquidated. How do they get price to track the real stock? By simple incentives…

Oh you mean it is backed by those unaudited, unregulated, unredeemable opaque tokens like USDT which are also a scam. What could possibly go wrong!

> unaudited, unregulated, unredeemable opaque tokens like Federal Reserve Notes

Would be nice if every single FRBNY operation were able to be queried by anyone in the public in real time, had a fixed set of rules all holders of notes could see and vote on, and was redeemable for gold like they used to be before the rules changed underneath holders who couldn't take part of governance (foreign holders)…

> What could possibly go wrong!

We're stuck in bailoutistan globably, and now it will be more expensive for tradfi entities to get bailed out on chain (which will happen, but cant shut down the dex's, cant reverse trades unless contracts allow for that) which will benefit non tradfi entities that take the opposite side of their highly leveraged trades conducted on chain.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#228
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? There are absolutely currency exchanges and lenders in the current financial system.

Either you’re being intentionally obtuse or don’t know what Uniswap is. Decentralized, automatic trading that can route liquidity for direct asset swapping does not exist in traditional finance for retail investors.

I have some professional backround in finance and still have literally no clue what "route liquidity for direct asset swapping" means. Can you ELI5 what uniswap does that current financial system does not? (Orher than "decentralization")

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in America they won't lol, it's illegal. In fact it's illegal for US persons to trade securities out of a non-SEC regulated brokerage account. See Regulation S. Isn't the new monetization strategy in crypto literally to reorder blocks and front-run transactions due to the massive time quanta? How exactly do you think the NBBO rule is to be implemented? [1] The little guys as always are the most likely to get hurt…

>Not in America they won't lol, it's illegal. In fact it's illegal for US persons to trade securities out of a non-SEC regulated brokerage account Is this comment referring companies issuing equity directly on-chain? Of course it's currently illegal. That doesn't mean it's illegal in all global jurisdictions or that savvy traders won't find a way to have financial liberty, even if it means moving countries/jurisdicti…

> That doesn't mean it's illegal in all global jurisdictions or that savvy traders won't find a way to have financial liberty, even if it means moving countries/jurisdictions, opening up a corporation elsewhere etc..

Sure, you can always move your trading to El Salvador, which plans to use bitcoin as official currrency.

What could ever go wrong with that?

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-57398274#:~:tex....

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#230
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some possible enforcement mechanisms against Ethereum DeFi smart contracts?

The greater Ethereum community accepts to put restrictions into place, or the US/EU/China puts sanctions on Eth owners and traders. You get to either move to Sealand, or accept restrictions.

I'd love to see the DoD/CCP conduct a metadata drone strike agaisnt addresses that were generated for a specific transaction x seconds ago, correlated with some IP addr correlated with some location that ended up being a server running in supply closet on one of their military bases.

Esp for chain running evm compatible contracts that are more scalable than ethereum and can have millions of ephemeral validator nodes.

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