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Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

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Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#91

Post by ArkanExplorer »

delusional wrote: post #29
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #17

Looks like cryptocurrencies are not very innovative. They keep reinstalling all the features that have been there and improved in the regular markets. Tether and stablecoins mimicking the USD, now this stuff mimicking stocks, how are the not getting in trouble with government institutions or Apple? What are the loopholes? No existing laws yet? Or they operate and reside in far away jurisdictions?

I don't think there's any political interest in looking at them right now. It's largely just a bunch of nerds playing with pretend money. It hasn't really hurt anybody outside of it yet.

We still have widespread chip and computer shortages, and in some regions of the world electricity shortages, because of the amount of silicon and energy being wasted on mining.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#92

Post by bpodgursky »

tablespoon wrote: post #66
aewct wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From TFA: > Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. These are certainly new innovations and features, be they good or bad.

>> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. > These are certainly new innovations and features, be they good or bad. That's saying a car with its seat belts removed has an "innovative new feature." The usual word for that situation…

"capital controls" only don't seem like a big deal because you presumably live under a government which you trust, which allows allows cross-border money flows, and which has a relatively stable currency.

For much or most of the world, that isn't true.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#94

Post by verdverm »

baby wrote: post #69
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my, they cal KYC "friction", that is indeed creative writing.

How is it not friction?

It's a law that requires financial institutions to "Know Their Customer" in order to operate legally. It's a reasonable law. Following existing regulations will be needed for crypto to have a chance at being mainstream

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#95

Post by ArkanExplorer »

quickthrowman wrote: post #79
baby wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how you’re getting to “not innovative”.

19th century-Bucket Shop 20th century-Contract for Difference 21st century-Tokenized uh stocks This is not a new idea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shop_(stock_market)

"In a form of what is now considered illegal front running and self-dealing, a bucket shop holding a large position on a stock, and knowing a client's vulnerable margin, might sell the stock on the real stock exchange, causing the price on the ticker tape to momentarily move down enough to exhaust the client's margins. Through its opportunistic actions, the bucket shop thereby gains 100% of the client's investment.

The term bucket shop came to apply to other types of scams, some of which are still practiced. They were typically small store front operations that catered to the small investor, where speculators could bet on price fluctuations during market hours. However, no actual shares were bought or sold: all trading was between the bucket shop and its clients. The bucket shop made its profit from commissions, and also profited when share prices went against the client.

Bucket shops were made illegal after they were cited as a major contributor to the two stock market crashes in the early 1900s."

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#96

Post by rank0 »

DennisP wrote: post #88
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #17

Looks like cryptocurrencies are not very innovative. They keep reinstalling all the features that have been there and improved in the regular markets. Tether and stablecoins mimicking the USD, now this stuff mimicking stocks, how are the not getting in trouble with government institutions or Apple? What are the loopholes? No existing laws yet? Or they operate and reside in far away jurisdictions?

I haven't seen anything like Uniswap in the regular markets.

What do you mean? There are absolutely currency exchanges and lenders in the current financial system.

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#97

Post by cs702 »

So we now have synthetic stocks on blockchains.

I expect in short order we will see synthetic asset-backed securities that track the prices of real ones, synthetic macroeconomic indicators that track the real ones, and a full suite of other financial derivatives -- maybe even "synthetic NFTs" that track the prices of "real NFTs."

The number and variety of synthetic securities, AKA derivatives, that could be created on blockchains are limited only by human creativity and imagination.

And all these decentralized blockchain derivatives will be accessible to retail investors worldwide, without regulatory limits on leverage, and without regulatory oversight. Sort of like a massively distributed shadow banking system.

What could go wrong?

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#98

Post by perl4ever »

sjtindell wrote: post #81
tablespoon wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Users can trade the tokens anonymously 24 hours a day, seven days a week, from anywhere, unhindered by capital controls, “know your client” rules imposed on broker-dealers, and other frictions of the traditional financial system. > These are certainly new innovations and features, be they good or bad. That's saying a car with its seat belts removed has an "innovative new feature." The usual word for that situation…

Would you have said the same when we moved from measuring stock prices in increments of dubloons to decimals? Where does all this HN hostility come from, I thought this crypto stuff would mesh so well with the Silicon Valley mindset. Trading should be instant, totally free, in any increment you choose, across borders! That’s the kind of mentality we apply to so much else in tech right? Is this really a bunch of hacke…

>measuring stock prices in increments of dubloons to decimals?

"dubloons"? Stock prices used to be in binary fractions. Barely over 20 years ago.

Obviously moving to decimals is going backwards, how many people program with BCD these days?

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#99

Post by rank0 »

elevenoh wrote: post #55
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #17

Looks like cryptocurrencies are not very innovative. They keep reinstalling all the features that have been there and improved in the regular markets. Tether and stablecoins mimicking the USD, now this stuff mimicking stocks, how are the not getting in trouble with government institutions or Apple? What are the loopholes? No existing laws yet? Or they operate and reside in far away jurisdictions?

crypto already allows one to buy AAPL token, privately, at 3am EST, for a ~$.1-$5 tx fee. Not bad for the 1st decade of a long story.

Except you aren’t actually buying ownership of AAPL. You don’t get any voting power or dividends. You are buying a token that the creator pinky promises are worth/redeemable for x shares of AAPL.

Those AAPL tokens are not insured by the SIPC…

Re: Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains

#100

Post by quickthrowman »

anm89 wrote: post #90

Fake seems like a strange choice of words here. These things arent attempting to deceive anyone into believing they are the real thing. They clearly label themselves as derivatives. We don't call corn futures fake corn, we don't call derivatives of other types fake those things and we shouldn't call these fake stocks. I'm really not defending or not defending whatever these platforms are. I wouldn't be surprised if t…

> We don't call corn futures fake corn

/ZC is physically settled[0], so that’s not a great example.

/ES (S&P 500) or other index futures that are cash-settled is a better analogy. They’re also, yknow, regulated[1].

[0] https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/agriculture/oilseeds/corn.c...

[1] https://www.cftc.gov/

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