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Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

fortune.com

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Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#221

Post by Spooky23 »

datameta wrote: post #99
Spooky23 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little more complicated than that. When you live on islands thousands of miles away from anywhere with a fairly homogenous population and diversified economy, it's easier both physically and politically to take isolation action against a pandemic.

I think the crux of the matter is that I speak with the benefit of hindsight whereas governments had no such luxury. I think, perhaps, if we truly knew with certainty that the pandemic was a more prolonged situation than one could hope for (despite being warned of such), that a more organized and simultaneous effort to shutter economies and travel for a temporary short-term would have been an easier position to argue…

Perhaps. In the United States, the Federal government lacks the power or manpower to make such a decisions, and given that there are 50 states, you’ll always have exceptions.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#222

Post by spywaregorilla »

agent008t wrote: post #206
Auracle wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve probably had some long COVID symptoms myself, but self reporting on something like this is next to worthless. You’ve got a mix of the placebo effect with people that had COVID attributing everything negative after to it, all backed with the media constantly reminding them of long COVID.

Even if it is placebo effect - so what? Placebo effect is still real and has real world consequences. If someone has higher levels of fatigue, or is more susceptible to depression or anxiety after COVID (both symptoms of long COVID) - is it any consolation to them that 'it is all in their head'? It is still an effect that must be considered and that must be studied and treated.

If it's a placebo effect then we should not consider long covid to be an important aspect of the vaccine strategy.

I don't think it's a placebo so much as just typical persistent flu symptoms and people misattributing other problems to their COVID case.

Which is not to regurgitate the meme about covid just being the flu, but if your body is weak and fights off a problematic disease, its not crazy that it takes a long time to heal fully. My original point, poorly worded, was mostly that if you're reducing hospitalizations, you're going to reduce long covid. It's not a mysterious orthogonal effect.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#223

Post by jasonlaramburu »

School-Cotton wrote: post #197
jasonlaramburu wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is an absurd fantasy that couldn’t have been possible in the real world. China and the countries of Oceania did just this and have largely suppressed COVID without MRNA vaccines. China has a massive, porous land border. They've protected themselves from inbound infection by quarantining all visitors on arrival.

> every single country

The pandemic is estimated to have cost the world >$16 trillion already. Now politicians are telling us we will have to live with it forever.

For that price, we literally could have paid every human on earth $2,000 to shelter in place for 4 weeks.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#224

Post by loceng »

lornemalvo wrote: post #199
loceng wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not including that people who are vaccinated's guard is down more, will likely be gathering more with wider social networks, etc; what are the chances an escape mutant variant occurs that spreads wide, has long delay before causing deadly effects, etc? And when does Ivermectin come into mainstream and every COVID discussion? Based on the evidence it looks like used as a preventative, give it to literally everyone for…

It does not look like Ivermectin would provide a substantial benefit: https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s128...

I'll do 99 better for you: https://c19ivermectin.com/ - "Database of all ivermectin COVID-19 studies. 100 studies, 63 peer reviewed, 61 with results comparing treatment and control groups."

COVID, Ivermectin, and the Crime of the Century DarkHorse Podcast with Pierre Kory & Bret Weinstein

https://vimeo.com/557811163 (2.5 hours; deleted by YouTube)

Joe Rogan then recently had Bret Weinstein and Pierre Kory on his podcast to raise awareness of issue

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7uVXKgE6eLJKMXkETwcw0D?si=7... (3 hours - heavily repeat of what was said in link before; Spotify desktop or mobile app lets you watch video)

How to save the world, in three easy [includes inventor of mRNA, if you care about credentials]

https://vimeo.com/562724784 (3.5 hours)

Bret Weinstein (evolutionary biologist) and Geert Vanden Bossche (virologist) explaining in lay how mRNA vaccine skips a step in innate immune response and may cause problem with escape variants:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNyAovuUxro (~2 hours)

Lots of ongoing updates from them:

Dr. Pierre Kory - https://twitter.com/pierreKory/

Dr. Robert Malone - https://twitter.com/RWMaloneMD

Dr. Bret Weinstein - https://twitter.com/BretWeinstein

Two other main resources/organizations of doctors posting regular updates of latest data/charts, etc:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/ / http://flccc.net/ (same site)

https://bird-group.org/

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#225

Post by datameta »

kristjansson wrote: post #217
datameta wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my scenario travel in both directions would be disallowed for the time period. This also requires neighboring nations to do the same, as well as farther off countries to implement checks at the airport. All this was somewhat done regardless but in a haphazard manner devoid of full international cooperation. So we suffered the major drawbacks anyway all while reaping a partial reward.

And if we banned all drugs, all drug use would stop too?

That's a strawman for an entirely separate discussion.

But I'll bite. No, it wouldn't. However that's not only why we shouldn't. It is most effectively and altruistically addressed as a medical and humanitarian issue.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#226

Post by datameta »

nradov wrote: post #116
datameta wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my scenario travel in both directions would be disallowed for the time period. This also requires neighboring nations to do the same, as well as farther off countries to implement checks at the airport. All this was somewhat done regardless but in a haphazard manner devoid of full international cooperation. So we suffered the major drawbacks anyway all while reaping a partial reward.

Just because something is disallowed doesn't mean people stop doing it.

The insinuation is that in such a scenario there would be a strong enough disincentive.

And perhaps also the incentive of not having a years long pandemic.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#227

Post by datameta »

Spooky23 wrote: post #221
datameta wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the crux of the matter is that I speak with the benefit of hindsight whereas governments had no such luxury. I think, perhaps, if we truly knew with certainty that the pandemic was a more prolonged situation than one could hope for (despite being warned of such), that a more organized and simultaneous effort to shutter economies and travel for a temporary short-term would have been an easier position to argue…

Perhaps. In the United States, the Federal government lacks the power or manpower to make such a decisions, and given that there are 50 states, you’ll always have exceptions.

Valid point. That's a whole extra tier of cooperation necessary. I suppose in this case it would not be unfair to treat each state similarly to a country on the global level, but it does complicate the path to the success condition.

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#228

Post by minikites »

deregulateMed wrote: post #72
minikites wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This new mRNA tech might completely change some degenerative diseases. For those who can afford it. Just another example of the rapidly growing chasm between the wealthy and the poor.

In the United States the poor get Medicaid, so it's really just the Middle Class who need to afford the $8000 to hit the max out of pocket.

>In the United States the poor get Medicaid

If they're lucky, Medicaid is in no way universal. Why shouldn't everyone have access to this technology via universal health care?

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#229

Post by smnrchrds »

loceng wrote: post #224
lornemalvo wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not look like Ivermectin would provide a substantial benefit: https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s128...

I'll do 99 better for you: https://c19ivermectin.com/ - "Database of all ivermectin COVID-19 studies. 100 studies, 63 peer reviewed, 61 with results comparing treatment and control groups." COVID, Ivermectin, and the Crime of the Century DarkHorse Podcast with Pierre Kory & Bret Weinstein https://vimeo.com/557811163 (2.5 hours; deleted by YouTube) Joe Rogan then recently had Bret Weinstein and Pierre Kory on his podc…

I have a hard time taking things like this seriously:

https://twitter.com/PierreKory/status/1411158326726082565

Are all your links like this? Denying what we clearly can see (that vaccines work) to promote what they think will work (ivermectin)?

EDIT: It gets worse the lower you scroll. In addition to dismissing vaccines and promoting ivermectin, he signal boosts "natural medicine" too.

https://twitter.com/PierreKory/status/1410028792236679175

Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant

#230

Post by nradov »

datameta wrote: post #226
nradov wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something is disallowed doesn't mean people stop doing it.

The insinuation is that in such a scenario there would be a strong enough disincentive. And perhaps also the incentive of not having a years long pandemic.

What is a strong enough disincentive? Would you recommend building physical walls along our borders and using violence against people who attempt to cross without authorization?
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