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Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

morrick.me

221–230 of 374 posts

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#221
I think it’s strange that browsers, routinely displaying responsive design layouts, have never tried this for their own window chrome.

They keep trying to shoehorn all screen sizes and space savings into one layout, when the web itself does a wiser thing: it adapts and makes better use of space if available.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#222

The new tab/address bar thing could be the reason I switch back away from Safari after using it as my main browser for a few years due to its energy efficiency compared to Firefox and Chrome. What UI designer thought taking away more space for the tab bar was a good idea? Does that person even use a web browser?

This is really interesting because it might be the reason I switch to Safari after using Firefox for years. All I really want is proper site isolation after this.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#223
On the subject of user interface messes, I recently switched away from Chrome on Android to Firefox, solely because of the "tab groups" feature.

I usually can live with UI changes, but reading the reviews of Chrome on the Google store, and the Chrome subreddit, it seems I'm not alone in disliking this change.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where's the scientific research and white papers going along with the Safari UI changes which clearly justify point by point why every single change makes sense, all backed by user studies? Are you being hyperbolic, or is this your actual position? That’s a ridiculously high bar that most organizations could not muster (and there’s no way Apple would release that stuff publicly anyway). “Emotional bullshit” is so n…

I'm dead serious. Almost every piece of software (and hardware) in a computer is driven by incremental improvements backed by research. Operating system kernels, file systems, databases, 3D-APIs, etc... there are tons of publications, white papers, discussions, all happening in public how those components are improved over the decades. There are dead ends from time to time, but those fail, and those failures are also…

As others point out, the discipline is called Human-Computer Interaction and has a rich history. The best example in the field might be work on Fitts’ Law, such as https://www.yorku.ca/mack/hhci2018.html

For more practical examples of how websites can be redesigned through science, though, see https://www.nngroup.com/ and other resources online regarding scientific study of UI, user experience (UX), etc.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#226

Linked article refers to the changes in Safari as "thoughtless UI", which is a fairly common argument used against changes that people don't like. Against Apple, Microsoft, WinAmp, Reddit, etc. But let's be fair and note that there quite certainly a lot of very proud, considerate, intentional designers and developers who are behind this change. People who probably put thousands (millions?) multiples of "thought" in c…

There is zero reason to eliminate the tab bar and combine it with the address bar. It's idiotic and there should at least be an option to undo it.

I have accidentally close more tabs than ever before - and that's with me actively being aware of it and trying to be careful. It's a HORRIBLE user design.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where's the scientific research and white papers going along with the Safari UI changes which clearly justify point by point why every single change makes sense, all backed by user studies? Are you being hyperbolic, or is this your actual position? That’s a ridiculously high bar that most organizations could not muster (and there’s no way Apple would release that stuff publicly anyway). “Emotional bullshit” is so n…

UX used to be driven by researchers like Bruce Tognazzini and Jakob Nielsen, who absolutely did studies with actual users to drive their designs. > If a UI designer can change an interface to please me a little more, that’s a good thing. Without observing actual users, how do you know if you are pleasing them, or just pleasing yourself?

As parent is an actual user, I guess they'll be able to tell if the UI pleases them.

Edit:

> UX used to be driven by researchers like Bruce Tognazzini and Jakob Nielsen, who absolutely did studies with actual users to drive their designs.

Large [UI driven] companies still do this or hire agencies to do so (of which there are far more nowadays given the field is more mature). The fact that UX researchers haven't much visibility outside of UX -- Nielsen started blogging relentlessly at a point in time where there wasn't really anyone else doing that, and it was hoovered up by a wider audience that needed that knowledge. That doesn't mean in any way that he's unique, or that companies who can afford UX teams don't do this. Nielsen and Tognazzini -- they were popularisers, good at producing easily digestible writing for a general audience

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#229
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the line of death"?

the clear separation between trusted outer chrome and untrusted content, so that content cannot fake chrome to malevolent ends (e.g faking a dialog, a SSL lock icon, a URL...)

Honestly, I don't think that almost anyone in real life cares about this "line of death" than yourself.

Re: Safari 15 on Mac OS, a user interface mess

#230
I have a controversial theory.

Foolish design is everywhere. Look at web trends. No underlined links, no clear button distinction, childish color schemes and rounded corners everywhere.

Apple UI/UX design is trend setter. They try to be cool and resonate with naive audiences. This is Design by Marketing.

This is the result of corporations hiring cheap millennial designers without proper design foundations, ready to serve and adapt to marketing concepts with compliance and enthusiasm. The burden of boomers expertise and professional code is no go for the future designed to serve boards of executives and shareholders.

This trend will continue rapidly, complexity will increase to the point where users will need AI to make choices and filter UX crap created by semi-pros for pennies. Yep.

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