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El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

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Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#221

Post by foepys »

landemva wrote: post #199
auxym wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deflation is not something desireable in macroeconomics. It incentivizes hoarding cash instead of spending it on productive things (hiring people, capital investments to improve productivity, etc). Slow and steady inflation is a stated goal for most governments and central banks.

Deflation means I can buy more stuff for less money. This allows me to work less and have more leisure time. Therefore, deflation is desirable.

So everybody stops working after saving a few years. And then who produces the food?

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#222

Post by strogonoff »

superkuh wrote: post #184
AnonMO wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KYC and AML for the purpose of money laundering exists throughout the world. Which regulation is specifically attempting to kill bitcoin if you don't mind me asking?

The US government has clearly stated bitcoin is not a currency. But they are still passing regulations saying all transfers of cryptocurrency value over $10k USD equiv have to be reported (as if it was a currency). This kind of obvious double-think has only one purpose.

US gov stance on cryptocurrency, when described this way, is clear to me. “We will only accept X. We will monitor the use of Y as a means of value exchange among the citizenry, since we still want everyone to participate in X market and pay taxes in it[0].”

Less double-think, more orthogonality.

[0] a.k.a. “maintain a country”

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#223

Post by strogonoff »

alentist wrote: post #215
rebuilder wrote: post #209

So I guess this is a litmus test for cryptoanarchists: condemn the use of state coercion to mandate the use of Bitcoin or cheer the financial gains Bitcoin holders stand to make?

Those are not mutually exclusive.

The end justifies the means, eh?

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#224

Post by louloulou »

grogenaut wrote: post #205
tofukid wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This goes both ways. Why buy a beer for $5 if Bitcoin is going up? You should just buy Bitcoin instead. Why buy $5 beer if instead you can buy index funds?

Because I want a $5 beer today, and one next week as well. Why buy bitcoin until you die and never have beer? Are you even living at that point?

Who's doing that? People can choose to hold whatever assets they want in whatever proportions they think are best (assuming they are not shut out of the fiat banking system, and live in a stable developed country).

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#225

Post by vidarh »

splintercell wrote: post #73
MithrilTuxedo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USD requires either a bank account or physical cash. This just needs a network connected device.

Not true. Strike requires KYC, just like a bank does.

Strike is not a requirement. The proposal is to allow Bitcoin payments, not specifically Strike.

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#226

Post by bb88 »

landemva wrote: post #193
bb88 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it worse to peg your economy to a decentralized cryptocurrency, or a fiat currency controlled by a large powerful near-neighbor who only occasionally even remembers you exist? A currency needs stability. Speculation needs volatility. Speculation only works when there's a stable currency to dump your value into when the the security your trading is going in the wrong direction.

"... only works when there's a stable currency to dump your value into ..." Hence the rise of algorithmic stable coins.

You mean like... Tether?

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#227

Post by NaturalPhallacy »

This is what bitcoin - and the world - through non-authoritarian controlled currency, needs.

BTC is a currency. People who treat as such - by simply accepting it or spending it - drive it's growth, and more importantly its acceptance. People who treat it as purely an investment stagnate its growth.

Feel free to read (or not) my more detailed comment on this concept here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27338320

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#228

Post by louloulou »

noahadavis wrote: post #204
Geee wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments that overspend or misallocate capital are a burden to the economy. With sound money, a badly managed country can go bankrupt because they can't print more money. It isn't the fault of the money, while this is the usual argument. It's just the nature of honest money. So, it results in destabilizing governments that are overspending, but stabilizing those that are not.

You don't see the side-effects of destabilizing a government as potentially disastrous for an economy? Governments and economies can have many different forms, but there are clear cases where destabilizing one will destabilize the other and ultimately lead to mass suffering for a period of time. Imagine what would happen if a government in a place like the Middle East or parts of Africa collapsed. History has shown t…

Allowing corrupt governments continue to steal the wealth of their citizens through printing money isn't a great alternative. At the end of the day people will use the money that works best for them if they have a choice.

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#229

Post by stickfigure »

adrianN wrote: post #218
chii wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government will accept payments in BTC. The telling thing would be what the gov't pays in (e.g., for tax returns). Do they pay you back in BTC? or fiat?

Seeing how not being able to print more money when you need it worked out for the government of e.g. Greece, I would be surprised if El Savlador chooses BTC for paying its debts.

El Salvador does not have its own currency; it has been using USD since 2001. It can't print money either way.

Re: El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender

#230

Post by NaturalPhallacy »

cdiddy2 wrote: post #151
AlexandrB wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, what potion of people store and manage their own wallet on their own hardware? Isn’t that usage pattern extremely rare? If so, what’s the difference between having a bank account and a Coinbase (or other exchange) account?

well according to this https://www.statista.com/statistics/1011424/el-salvador-bank... only 30% of adults have a bank account to begin with. Probably a lot easier to setup a bitcoin wallet

It's absolutely easier. It just requires a computer connected to the internet. There are billions of those.

A bank account requires all kinds of state sanctioned proof which subjects you to authoritarian monitoring, which is by desing.

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