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Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

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Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#221

Post by notahacker »

sneak wrote: post #203
notahacker wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearance to fly through and clearance to make an emergency landing due to doubts about the fuel gauge (we have the cockpit audio discussing the latter...) are not the same thing. If there was really a dastardly plot to capture the guy that wasn't even on the aircraft, they'd have gone for fighter jets, not "don't land in our country, land in the country you're flying over where a diplomat will be mildly undiplomatic…

They swatted the plane with machine gun guys as soon as it landed. Let's not pretend.

Someone should let the Bolivians know because they missed that bit from their accounts!

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#222

Post by wasmitnetzen »

tomp wrote: post #131
slezyr wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s odd to me that the Ryanair flight yesterday was already closer to its destination of Vilnius than Minsk when it turned around. Closer, but it had the wrong altitude for Vilnius. They were intercepted earlier. See this visualization https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1396482250812841986

Very interesting! Is there a sensible explanation for this? Have they known up-front that the flight is going to be diverted? Or maybe they were radio-ed before, and there was some discussion / negotiation (during which time, they aborted their descent to Vilnius)...

A plane slows down in descent to an airport, so my guess would be that they tried to leave Belarusian airspace as fast as possible, but it wasn't fast enough.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#223

Post by [deleted] »

erentz wrote: post #40

It’s odd to me that the Ryanair flight yesterday was already closer to its destination of Vilnius than Minsk when it turned around. Ryanair said that the crew had been "notified by Belarus (Air Traffic Control) of a potential security threat on board and were instructed to divert to the nearest airport, Minsk". So they didn’t have an incident onboard? There were no hijackers claiming to have a bomb? Just ATC telling…

[deleted]

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#224

Post by piokoch »

_0w8t wrote: post #92
jcaldas wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lukashenko will not go down without a fight, and Russia is very unwilling to see a color revolution again next to its borders. Putin dreams of annexing Belarus. Couple this with the EU's overall weakness and fragmented interests (eg nordstream 2), and it's hard to imagine a good outcome. A few sanctions will come out of this that will make EU officials look good and further place Belarus into Russian hands (namely, a…

It is not that clear that Russia all that happy about the incident. A girlfriend of Roman Protasevich, who is a Russian citizen, was also detained and that already caused PR issues for Kremlin. Plus there is even comments from Russia’s Duma about how this can be damaging for Russia.

Protasevich was tracked in many countries before he entered this plane, tracked by someone doing that very professionally engaging a lot of resources. It is hard to imagine Belarus was doing this alone, without Russia support.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#225

Post by tuyguntn »

we ended up in such situation because there are usually no consequences of governments doing bad to their citizens. UN is a joke. All sanctions are applied only against Russia, but for any other case/country what governments are usually doing are cheap words: "condemning/concerned/we are deeply ..." that's all.

There is no consensus inside UN on what is good and what is bad for people, countries have veto rights, which shouldn't exist if there were clear guidelines on what is allowed and what is not. Please show us some real actions and make authoritarian regimes feel pain for doing harm. Shutdown all the incoming and outgoing flights to/from Belarus, including transits and goods.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#226

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

ceejayoz wrote: post #200
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are people allowed to make jokes about their own government in Russia and in the associated eastern european states? What "associated astern european states" do you mean?

Belarus probably serves as a decent example.

Belarus aside, which ones? Because I can't think of any.

Seriously, it's been over thirty years since the end of Cold War and people still think there are some eastern European states associated with Russia... Almost all of them are in the EU now with the notable exception of Ukraine which is in a state of de facto war with Russia. Even Lukashenko has a bitter-sweet relationship with Putin.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#227

Post by motives »

Aperocky wrote: post #209
motives wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that the EU has banned entire nations (such as Kazakhstan and others) from flying in EU airspace before for not meeting safety expectations. It is absolutely within possibility to ban Belarus for an overt Chicago convention violation.

Only the airlines, not the nation. You can fly from Kazakhstan on an European carrier to Europe. Europe previously have also banned shoddy Soviet era airliners that are both incredibly loud, toxic and quite unsafe, which is the right thing to do.

I feel this is a fairly pedantic correction, though of course you're very correct nonetheless. My opinion is that banning all of a nations major airlines from operating in your airspace is functionally equivalent to banning that nation. Belarus is much like Kazakhstan in that the vast majority of routes from its airports are by its national airlines. Most of the routes to the EU are flown by Belavia (Belarus' national airline) https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-minsk-msq.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#228

Post by standardUser »

tuyguntn wrote: post #225

we ended up in such situation because there are usually no consequences of governments doing bad to their citizens. UN is a joke. All sanctions are applied only against Russia, but for any other case/country what governments are usually doing are cheap words: "condemning/concerned/we are deeply ..." that's all. There is no consensus inside UN on what is good and what is bad for people, countries have veto rights, whi…

If the UN were used in the way you are suggesting, the UN wouldn't exist.

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#229

Post by activatedgeek »

tuyguntn wrote: post #225

we ended up in such situation because there are usually no consequences of governments doing bad to their citizens. UN is a joke. All sanctions are applied only against Russia, but for any other case/country what governments are usually doing are cheap words: "condemning/concerned/we are deeply ..." that's all. There is no consensus inside UN on what is good and what is bad for people, countries have veto rights, whi…

> UN is a joke.

I just finished reading "Washington Bullets" [1]. (Part of) It is a crash course into how and why institutions like UN, IMF etc. are they way they are.

And honestly, I just feel paralyzed after reading the book. These institutions just don't have the clout by design.

[1]: https://www.librarything.com/work/25426761/book/200164537

Re: Baltic airlines reroute flights to avoid Belarus airspace

#230

Post by avereveard »

jopsen wrote: post #120
tacker2000 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a EU citizen, this is quite hilarious. The EU is so toothless it hurts.

Sometimes it's the slow and steady diplomacy that affects the biggest change over time. What good is quick action going to do? It might be better to let this guide trading policies in the future.

for the guy that's being detained (or worse) right now every minute kind of counts
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