Earlier quoted context omitted.
Police kill about 1000-1200 people per year in the U.S., depending on who's counting. See for example the Washington Post data. So it's not just tens over a decade.
IIRC, isn't the CDC forbidden by law from investigating all types of deaths by firearms?
Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
221–230 of 271 posts
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
That seems oversimplified. Do you have any data about the trends of gun possession by criminals or gun crime related to attacks on police? There are also a lot of innocent people being shot too, or the visibility of it has increased. Edit: also, could it be police are less trained or more fearful than in the past?
I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…
A quick DDG says this is an urban legend, or do you, Mr. "Highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc" know better?
And did those things you read justify the death he suffered? The cops didn't even know his past, and even if they did, so fucking what, their job isn't to judge someone to be worthy of death and then executing them...
But well, it's easy enough for people like you to find excuses that "those people were bad guys" who "deserved it", so you can sleep at night and not admit to yourself that maybe you're biased.
> Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous.
The 4 fuckers had 9 minutes to change the situation and not end up being shit cops, with at least one of them rotting in jail because he was deemed to have broken the law (although maybe not in your book(s), Mr. Dunning Kruger?). Were they in a life threatening situation for those 9 minutes?
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe you should base your opinions on data: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-... Violent crime in the USA has fallen dramatically in the last 20 years.
'If it is fact, not fiction, that violent street crime today is almost exclusively a minority phenomenon, then it would appear that one simply may not speak about it. That proscription injures law-abiding residents of high-crime areas most of all, people like the aunt of a child victim in St. Louis, who told the Washington Post in October: “I live in fear of living in St. Louis. I feel trapped.” Such citizens beg for…
The data don't seem to support that.
Obviously violent crime still exists in the USA, and from my point of view in NZ the rates seem scarily high. That doesn't mean they haven't decreased.
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#224I wonder why cops in the West don't use man catchers? It's a great tool to subdue any non-gun wielding person. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-2SpSMZtyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4z-gzkb6s4 Pepper spray and stick don't work against someone who is strong and aggressive.
I imagine a version of these wide enough for a person’s waist and with a locking mechanism could be used for knife/fistfights and be much more humane than shooting. Perhaps they could be stored in squad cars the way shotguns are.
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
Large % of black Americans don't trust the criminal justice system and police, I expect this leads to more extrajudicial crime fighting carried out by the community that skews assault/murder rates.
That's not skewed numbers, "extrajudicial crime fighting" that ends with someone dead is correctly categorized as murder. Lack of trust in the system is a problem, but retributive killings are not the solution.
That is no more true than it is without the word “extrajudicial”. It’s homicide, sure, but not all homicide is murder, and not all exteadjudicial crime fighting that results in death meets the definition of murder (or even criminal homicide.)
> Lack of trust in the system is a problem, but retributive killings are not the solution.
Retributive killings (and extradjudicial response generally) aren’t intended as solution to lack of trust in the system, they are solutions to other problems for which the palpable hostility of the system forecloses otherwise superior solutions.
Dismantling the system and replacing it with one that is trustworthy is the solution, but it was one that is actively opposed by those whosd relative position is supported by the features of the system that render it untrustworthy to the population at issue.
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc. Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common. Police are more frequently in life threatening situations. The demands on them to act perfectly are enormous. And so we see mistakes, broadly painted as racism. Its a cancerous thought framework, and it threatens…
> I'm a highly educated individual, commonly read dense scientific works, philosophy, political science etc And yet you wrote something as cringey as that. > Adam Toledo was known in his neighborhood as "Lil Homicide” Imagine having such a highly educated brain, filled with dense scientific works as well as philosophy, and using it to justify the murder of an unarmed 13 year old child by the state. None of the exampl…
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why does the business of selling cannabis need to be so accessible? If someone wants to do it, they can put in the work to 'get the paperwork through the system'; if they just want it to be available to them and their friends, well, now it is, because someone else has put in that work. I don't really see the issue? (But then, I'm glad to live in a country that hasn't legalised it, so what do I know.)
In most states the licenses are extremely hard to get, it's not a matter of just 'putting in the work'. They're effectively out of reach for your standard weed dealer.
That's not to say that getting a license isn't harder than starting a fast food franchise, but the metric of difficulty we use here shouldn't be the typical weed dealer.
Probably a better comparison would be an entrepreneur trying to start a liquor store. Even then, it makes sense to me that as society tries to figure out the best way to do this, it goes carefully & with a lot of scrutiny to figure out how to do it right. It's not the sort of thing that should have a "move fast & break things" approach.
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
'If it is fact, not fiction, that violent street crime today is almost exclusively a minority phenomenon, then it would appear that one simply may not speak about it. That proscription injures law-abiding residents of high-crime areas most of all, people like the aunt of a child victim in St. Louis, who told the Washington Post in October: “I live in fear of living in St. Louis. I feel trapped.” Such citizens beg for…
Logicslave said: "Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common." The data don't seem to support that. Obviously violent crime still exists in the USA, and from my point of view in NZ the rates seem scarily high. That doesn't mean they haven't decreased.
https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-def...
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#229I think this only addresses half of what's wrong with Newark PD. Newark still spends about a third of it's city budget on police, at the expense of essential services like infrastructure and education. Newark PD still arrests Black people at a much much higher rate than white people. The disparity of arrest rates is even greater when it comes to drug possession.
This sentiment about arrest rates really needs to go. I've done a deep dive into the numbers. Murder rate data from the FBI has a large "unknown" category, so I'll handle that in a few ways for simplicity. Focusing on murders rather than other violent crime is the best thing to do because, while there may be a lot of ambiguity about what constitutes "assault", how often it's reported, etc., there really isn't much am…
First of all, most police stops and arrests aren't for murder, but for various petty crimes (particularly drugs and traffic violations) that are certainly unevenly enforced, even controlling for other factors (see e.g. see e.g. https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?art...), so citing murder statistics here to seems a little irrelevant, as they are such a small fraction of police stops. It is also probably not an effective means of catching murderers (instead turning communities against the police, perhaps contributing to the pathetic murder clearance rates achieved by police). As you probably know, many have argued that there is both overpolicing of petty crimes and underpolicing of violent crimes in minority communities ( see, e.g. https://www.vox.com/2015/4/14/8411733/black-community-polici...).
But, sticking to murder rates, these statistics also ignore a lot of dynamics. At least in urban areas (I don't have much familiarity with rural areas), most murders aren't individuals acting independently to commit murder. Instead, a large fraction of murders are gang-related (either directly, or collaterally), suggesting that to large extent, differential gang prevalence might be a dominant factor in the difference in murder rates.
Why are gangs prevalent today in some communities and not others? 100 years ago, gangs in places like Chicago were predominantly ethnic white (think Al Capone), though those gangs have largely declined and no longer play a larger role as far as I can tell. Nowadays, 90% of gang members appear to be Black or Hispanic (https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/survey-analysis/demograph...). Gangs of course are not all the same (some are probably more violent than others), but maybe the right question to be asking is why are gangs so prevalent among urban minorities.
I don't have any special knowledge here, but I imagine that in many cases, differential policing may certainly be a direct or indirect contributor to high gang prevalence. . There of course other many other reasons (community disinvestment, inertia, the "war on drugs."), but differential policing has the potential to cause a positive feedback loop here (unfair treatment -> higher gang membership -> higher violent rates -> unfair treatment) that probably needs to be broken. Of course, historically, unfair treatment of Blacks well predates the formation of Black street gangs (according to https://www.sagepub.com/sites/default/files/upm-binaries/434..., Black street gangs didn't become prevalent in large urban areas until the 50's/60's).
It might be "natural" for police to treat communities with higher murder rates differently, but that does not mean that it's the smart or right thing to do.
Re: Newark cops, with reform, didn't fire a single shot in 2020
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Logicslave said: "Its my opinion that violent crime, and especially brazen violent crime is just flat out more common." The data don't seem to support that. Obviously violent crime still exists in the USA, and from my point of view in NZ the rates seem scarily high. That doesn't mean they haven't decreased.
@mkI In San Francisco where I am violent crime has absolutely exploded since theft under $950 per day has been reduced to a misdemeanor. Adding fuel to this fire are opioid addicts stealing to feed their habit, a toxic combination of extremely violent attacks coupled with endless petty crime. The big Walgreens drugstore chain Walgreens has closed ten stores in SF primarily due to rampant crime, with a lot of small re…