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Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

libreboot.org

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Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#221

Post by dang »

DetroitThrow wrote: post #176
caslon wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never said it was, I said it was one which seems to have been created on the spot as a convenient way to demonize "others" given that the moral movement has never been morally bankrupt enough for the last few decades to exclude individuals based on their participation in proprietary projects. Free software has always been a moral movement; it's those who promote proprietary software that are morally bankrupt. > A…

>Free software has always been a moral movement; it's those who promote proprietary software that are morally bankrupt. Ah, so those employed by proprietary software inherently promote it? You lack a grasp of those within the free software movement, then. >Being against proprietary software is pro-freedom, and nothing I'm saying is ahistorical. You're pretty clearly conflating the open source movement (based around p…

Please don't get involved in tit-for-tat flamewars on HN. They're tedious and inevitably degenerate. Also, please omit swipes, regardless of how wrong or provocative some other comments are or you feel they are. It only makes things worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#222

Post by [deleted] »

gopiandcode wrote: post #35
rzwitserloot wrote: post #2

From the linked article: > Our opponents wish to destroy Free Software > Our opponent’s true target is not Richard Stallman; their real aim is to destroy the FSF by thoroughly infiltrating it (like they already have with organisations like the OSI and Linux Foundation). These people even started an online petition calling for RMS’s forceful removal and for the entire board of directors at the FSF to resign from their…

> So, you're either forced to defend Richard Stallman and accept what's going on over there, or __YOU ARE THE ENEMY OF ALL OPEN SOURCE__. Firstly Free software != open source, so you probably meant free software in your original quote. Secondly, while there may be people who have legitimate concerns about RMS, the authors of the open letter have chosen not to highlight these claims but rather to rely on mischaracteri…

[deleted]

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#223

Post by dang »

caslon wrote: post #183
DetroitThrow wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Free software has always been a moral movement; it's those who promote proprietary software that are morally bankrupt. Ah, so those employed by proprietary software inherently promote it? You lack a grasp of those within the free software movement, then. >Being against proprietary software is pro-freedom, and nothing I'm saying is ahistorical. You're pretty clearly conflating the open source movement (based around p…

> Ah, so those employed by proprietary software inherently promote it? This is how it works, yes. We are complicit in our employers' deeds, whether that's working for a company that does ICE contracts or working for a company that harms people with proprietary software. > Again, you're inventing purity tests because you've never contributed to the movement and you clearly lack an understanding of the movement's histo…

Please don't get involved in tit-for-tat flamewars on HN. They're tedious and inevitably degenerate. Also, please omit swipes, regardless of how wrong or provocative some other comments are or you feel they are. It only makes things worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#224

Post by pankajdoharey »

rzwitserloot wrote: post #2

From the linked article: > Our opponents wish to destroy Free Software > Our opponent’s true target is not Richard Stallman; their real aim is to destroy the FSF by thoroughly infiltrating it (like they already have with organisations like the OSI and Linux Foundation). These people even started an online petition calling for RMS’s forceful removal and for the entire board of directors at the FSF to resign from their…

People are multi faceted and the world is gray. One cannot undermine ones contributions to computer science for the sake of PC culture or aggreing to the popular opinion. People voted for trump should we hate those people or just disagree with their views? Popular opinion isnt the arbitor of truth!

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#225

Post by ttt0 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #219
ttt0 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just RMS, they call for the removal of the entire FSF board.

An understandable call, since that is the board which (with no explanation) has re-instated Stallman. An organization's supporters interpret bad leadership as damage and route around it.

Supporters like OSI, a rival organization?

No one cares about Stallman beside people who are already involved in open-source movements.

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#226

Post by ryandrake »

Nursie wrote: post #182
iocert wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not forced to defend him, in fact Leah calls some of Stallman's statements "idiotic" herself. But she is intellectually mature enough to see that most humans have had 5 stupid views over 30 years, and Stallman was just honest enough to write them down. You don't need to defend the views (some of which have already been retracted), but you have to accept Stallman as flawed human being. Stallman is currently st…

> You don't need to defend the views (some of which have already been retracted), but you have to accept Stallman as flawed human being. This (the holding on to his views of 15 years ago, which he has since come to understand are wrong) is a major issue in the modern world IMHO. That's not to defend Stallman's more recent gaffes, or even those older ones. But it raises a question - we know people can learn, grow and…

I hope I never become famous, because someone will surely trawl through my 25 year old USENET posts and probably find something to hang me with. Probably something that was benign and harmless back in the 90’s but now offensive.

I wonder what future discussion-archaeologists will find 25 years from now in our HN posts that by 2046 becomes offensive!

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#227

Post by zzo38computer »

Stallman isn't perfect (and I don't agree with everything; anyways, nobody is perfect, and I am also not perfect), but he said many important and good things for computer programming freedom, and should have (like anyone) the freedom of speech.

They make many good points.

I agree "per/perse" isn't transphobic. However, what unfortunately many people think, "they" should not be used singular because it is plural. Actually, "you" is also plural, and a lot of people use it singular. Singular "they" is actually very old, it is nothing new. (Both words are grammatically plural, even if the meaning is singular, though. People have been confused about this too, and wrote "they is", even though it is supposed to be "they are", because it is grammatically plural. Actually, the same is true fo "you is" in the past; people argued about that too.) It is true that sometimes "they" is unclear, but that is also sometimes the case of "you" and other words, too. (However, also sometimes you do not want to distinguish plural/singular even if you have to do.)

Some people will always accuse the people of things in order to discredit them. These accusations are not always valid; that is why they will need an investigation (and in this case, they did write the investigation, as can be seen).

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#228

Post by fsflover »

geofft wrote: post #217
fsflover wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the corporate interests don't want people to think about fundamental freedoms anyway, so they wouldn't mind. It's therefore very important that someone is out there saying that you can't be "open source" either without the fundamental freedoms, and the OSI has been doing exactly that. The community should force the companies to do what we want, not what the companies prefer. We want that free software be called…

I agree that the community should force the companies to do what we want. How do you propose we do that? Is the FSF doing that?

In my opinion, FSF and Stallman are doing that by promoting the free software principles, sharing articles like I linked above. We probably need EFF to join this effort, too.

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#229

Post by shadowgovt »

ttt0 wrote: post #225
shadowgovt wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An understandable call, since that is the board which (with no explanation) has re-instated Stallman. An organization's supporters interpret bad leadership as damage and route around it.

Supporters like OSI, a rival organization? No one cares about Stallman beside people who are already involved in open-source movements.

Supporters like the members of the FSF who are resigning and volunteers who have stepped away from the project in light of this decision.

https://www.fsf.org/blogs/executive-director/management-team...

Re: Libreboot – Defend Richard Stallman

#230

Post by koonsolo »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #210
nojokes wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world you are looking for is "abuse". Abusers (your wording) abuse, they do not assault (when they do, then they become an assaulter). What Marvin Minsky did in that situation was to abuse this 17 year old girl. What he did was morally (and most likely also legally, I do not know the full details) wrong but as far as we know, he was not violent or forcing. That is the important difference Richard Stallman tried t…

> What Marvin Minsky did in that situation * - what he allegedly did in that situation. This claim is disputed and was never proven.

Ah yes, I thought I read that somewhere. Which makes this whole witch hunt even more absurd.
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