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Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

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Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#221

Post by scatters »

reificator wrote: post #156
maccard wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're right, drivers should simply pause physics and magically stop their vehicle or wear nightvision goggles at all times. You're being ridiculous here. Nobody is asking for that, they're asking for sensible road design and sensible rules. > because a woman was illegally crossing the road around a bend, covered by trees, with a kid being dragged behind her, 40 feet from a crosswalk that clearly indicated DO NOT W…

> Right of way or not, you are the operator of the dangerous machine,not the pedestrian. The onus is on you to pay attention to your surroundings. It doesn't matter whose fault it is if you clip a child at 40mph, they're dead. This is disingenuous. Say for instance a person wants to die by being hit by traffic: they can jump out from behind a parked car right as the car passes. So in at least some percentage of cases…

If you're driving along a road with parked cars, you slow to a speed where if someone (say a 4 year old child) jumps out you can stop within your reaction time. Anything else is dangerously reckless.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#222

Post by Mountain_Skies »

incanus77 wrote: post #206
jawns wrote: post #52

My first year of college, I was cited for jaywalking. I was walking across a barren street in our small college town on my way to class, and there was a town cop standing against a wall of a nearby building waiting for an easy catch. I had fully crossed the street and was walking to a nearby building when I heard someone yell "Hey" behind me. I contemplated not even turning around, because I wanted to get to class on…

I got a ticket for jaywalking when I lived in downtown Washington, DC about 15 years ago. The officer asked to see my license (what if I hadn't had one?) and wrote a ticket, but as a warning with no fine. Said it was the first sunny day of the Spring and the city had him out to try to cut down on tourists etc. wandering around and possibly getting hit by cars.

Generally in the US you are not required to carry identification but you are required to give truthful identification information when asked by a law enforcement officer. If you didn't have your drivers license that day, you likely would have still received the warning ticket. If you lied about your identification, you may have gotten away with it but if caught in that lie, the consequences would have been much higher than a mere jaywalking ticket.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#223

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

Just want to point out how special interests can actually pretty insidiously change your viewpoint by making you think "that's the way things have always been". It was relatively recently that I discovered that jaywalking, as a crime, was a distinctly American phenomenon, when in an HN discussion someone mentioned that British folk think the crime of jaywalking is insane (in the UK you can cross pretty much wherever you want as long as you're not impeding traffic). My initial reaction was "Wait, that's nuts, of course jaywalking should not be allowed." I didn't even realize how the "default" of what I was used to in the US was basically just constructed by the auto industry for their benefit.

Glad this is coming to light and hope more places get rid of jaywalking.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#224

Post by leetcrew »

1MachineElf wrote: post #175
whydoyoucare wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that "people of color" account for 90% of the total people who jaywalked in NYC in 2019? Unless all data and all variables in the argument are made available for inspection, it is difficult to derive any meaningful conclusions.

In the case of Baltimore, it certainly seems that way.

the city is 63% black, so I guess they have a head start. I certainly see plenty of white folks jaywalking in fed, roland park, etc.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#225

Post by marricks »

bigbubba wrote: post #208
marricks wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many US cities are designed to be downright hostile to pedestrians, California in particular. Some areas in Orange County have blocks before cross walks, or cross walks only on one side of the street so you had to make the right decision a block ago about which side of the street to be on! Strip malls seemed designed to have people drive the 1k feet between businesses rather than having accessible walking. With city…

I don't think I've ever seen an American strip mall without a wide sidewalk running in front of every business on the strip. The sidewalk is such an integral component of a strip mall, it sounds like what you're describing isn't a strip mall at all. And if people are so lazy that they drive around the parking lot instead of using the sidewalk, that reflects on them, not the sidewalk.

> And if people are so lazy that they drive around the parking lot instead of using the sidewalk, that reflects on them, not the sidewalk.

I think this reflects a lot of comments, "American's are lazy" and "Look at this german punks walking and respecting traffic laws!" Is the argument US is just inherently lazy? Could there be something else at play? I think it's just that when a use case isn't a main focus of design those users will be stuck trying to hack the system or having a poor experience. USA isn't designed for walkers most places, those people will behave "badly" because of it.

Also, yes there are strip malls that bad, I can show one but then we'll be having pedantic arguments over "hey if you walk an extra 600 feet you have a sidewalk!" or something. Like, even the idea of a strip mall inherently is car centric, with most square footage devoted to parking and who wants to walk (or even drive!) through a parking lot.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#226

Post by asguy »

woodruffw wrote: post #100

We in the US do an absolutely horrific job of recognizing and compensating for the externalities of our automotive culture. The criminalization of jaywalking is one major aspect, but also consider: 1. The construction of highways through poor (read: minority) urban areas, causing mass respiratory disease and premature deaths[1]. 2. Allocation of free public space (car parking) to drivers, effectively subsidizing (dis…

> 1. The construction of highways through poor (read: minority) urban areas, causing mass respiratory disease and premature deaths[1].

Isn't this kind of leap? I've lived plenty of expensive places (e.g. downtown San Diego, Boston, Los Angeles) that had free/highways close to expensive property. What is leading you to believe highway construction targets the poor areas, other than those real estate markets are already depressed (which is possibly why poor people live there)?

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#227

Post by ck425 »

nineplay wrote: post #127
chrisseaton wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All your arguments are about protecting yourself and limiting your liability at the expense of the pedestrian and you just slowing down and taking more care. You even talk in the passive voice about people being struck by your car rather than you striking them with your car. That's a shit attitude.

I would have to drive very far below the speed limit on any street in my vicinity to be able to safely stop before hitting a jaywalker. I can do that, of course, but I then become a road hazard. I find it hard to believe that the overall safety would increase as a result. I'm open to being otherwise convinced.

The solution there is that you drop the speed limit for everyone and therefore you're not a road hazard. Anywhere that could have a reasonable number of pedestrians should have adopted limits such that the majority of traffic can safely stop before hitting someone in most cases. Drivers convenience should not trump people's lives.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#228

Post by what2build »

dehrmann wrote: post #205
woodruffw wrote: post #100

We in the US do an absolutely horrific job of recognizing and compensating for the externalities of our automotive culture. The criminalization of jaywalking is one major aspect, but also consider: 1. The construction of highways through poor (read: minority) urban areas, causing mass respiratory disease and premature deaths[1]. 2. Allocation of free public space (car parking) to drivers, effectively subsidizing (dis…

> 2. Allocation of free public space (car parking) to drivers, effectively subsidizing (disproportionately suburban) commuters at the expense of residents. The times I've commuted into a city, I had to pay for parking, usually in a private lot. I suspect it's like this in most big cities, and in smaller cities where people still commute, parking is probably private lots owned by the employer, not street parking. Pict…

Parking structures are:

1) an eyesore 2) poor use of space in dense urban areas

Sure let’s reduce urban housing supply cause suburbanites need to drive into town for a little culture. Bringing the noise, smog, and road rage along!

Or build culture out there and bike or walk. Omg.

It’s insanely toxic, and the epitome of first world entitlement.

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#229

Post by carapace »

I rarely recommend videos but this one in re: Jaywalking is funny and informative: "The Real Reason Jaywalking Is A Crime (Adam Ruins Everything)"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM

I was telling a coworker about this once and he didn't believe me, but it was basically a deliberate and successful attempt at mass social engineering through domestic propaganda. We went from vilifying reckless drivers as "speed demons" to vilifying pedestrians as "jays" (yokels or hicks.)

Re: Jaywalking decriminalization, 100 years after the auto industry made it a crime

#230

Post by carapace »

ericmcer wrote: post #176
woodruffw wrote: post #100

We in the US do an absolutely horrific job of recognizing and compensating for the externalities of our automotive culture. The criminalization of jaywalking is one major aspect, but also consider: 1. The construction of highways through poor (read: minority) urban areas, causing mass respiratory disease and premature deaths[1]. 2. Allocation of free public space (car parking) to drivers, effectively subsidizing (dis…

Car free cities are super obtainable but seem like a total impossibility. We will never trade safety, health and solitude for convenience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_car-free_places

That's mostly islands, here are a few cities: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/car-free-cities-of-the-w...

I'm trying to find the city in Brazil (I think is is) where they recently went car-free.

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