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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#221

Post by danudey »

coldpie wrote: post #113
Razengan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple needed that 30 percent cut to monitor for fraud and quality or something, going above-and-beyond other payment processors. How much do Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Steam, Gog and etc. take from publishers on their stores?

It's all private, of course, but they're all generally in the 30% ballpark. There may be lower rates for big clients, but there's no way for us to know that. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/08/as-epic-attacks-apple...

In other words, Apple and Google are bad for taking a 30% cut, but Sony and Microsoft are not bad for taking a 30% cut plus having a (reportedly) vastly more onerous set of policies than Apple has.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#222

Post by pwinnski »

senko wrote: post #207
ascagnel_ wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unaware of any current legal action Netflix is taking against Apple.

That's not what the parent said.

I listed three conditions: "[1] violated the policies and then [2] filed a lawsuit and [3] started an extensive PR campaign"

Netflix arguably did the first, but I don't recall them doing either of the other two things.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#223

Post by nwienert »

fatbird wrote: post #172
pmontra wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then customers that want that product go to another store chain. This makes stores think twice before banning some products or brands. There is only one store in iOS country.

But there are several stores in mobile country, and more again in platform country. Drawing the boundary of the market around iOS seems circular. "They're a monopoly because they have 100% of the market share on the market that's specific to them."

The truth is because there are only two stores in our example, it really does make sense.

Imagine there were only Walmart and Costco and literally nothing else, even small business. Now someone violates Walmart’s rules for a specific item in the store, and they not only ban that item, but also ban every item they sell.

Here’s where it gets dystopian. In all platforms that allow competitive stores, the fees settle way down from 30%. Look at windows, epic, steam. 5-20%. That’s what a competitive price looks like.

But because there exists literally only Walmart and Costco, they have 0 incentive to compete. That’s abuse of market power, and exactly what Antitrust concerns itself.

The tired analogy of “it isn’t a monopoly” just doesn’t hold up in two dimensions: there are only two major players, both disallow competition within their marketplace, and yet in alternative platforms (game consoles, windows, linux) you have alternative routes to delivery that show us the “real cost” of managing a platform.

Apple and Google are running their companies with 0 foresight. It’s a shame that Tim doesn’t have the foresight to pre-empt this, it’s terrible brand strategy and they are supposed to be good at it.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#224

Post by brmgb »

baddox wrote: post #188
Maascamp wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But doing so wouldn't make that developer's software unusable on Windows.

Being banned from the iOS App Store also doesn't make your software unusable on Windows, or Mac, or any other non-iOS platform. The App Store's exclusivity is precisely the same as that of nearly every video game console.

> The App Store's exclusivity is precisely the same as that of nearly every video game console.

I don't understand why you keep bringing up video game consoles in this discussion.

1. You seem to believe people actually agree with the way console stores work. This is not the case.

2. The fact that the situation is also terrible somewhere else doesn't absolve Apple of anything. That's not how justice works.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#225

Post by grishka »

danudey wrote: post #201
askl56 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1295434558112960519?s=21 This may have consequences for Unreal Engine too. Without a dev account, how can they maintain it?

They can still build and test on-device, they just won't be able to publish anything to the app store. Specifically, in XCode, they can add an Apple ID (any Apple ID) and use that to build on a device.[1] This creates a "personal team"[2] which you can use to test on your devices. [1] https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/devaf282080a [2] https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/dev17411c009

Or, alternatively, use a jailbroken device for testing and modify the SDK to not require code signing when building for ARM.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#226

Post by gowld »

aaomidi wrote: post #202
woofie11 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A one-sided agreement containing a retaliation clause, followed by exercising that clause, is retaliation. Say you're desperate and need water in a crisis, and I offer you some, but only if you sign an agreement which gives you water, but says I can punch you in the face whenever you say something I don't like. Say you say something I don't like, and I punch you in the face. Did I just retaliate? Or did the contract…

The idea that "it was in the contract that Epic agreed to" is ridiculous. It wasn't a contract that Epic could've disagreed to. This is the same for end users, but we don't have the power to start a lawsuit against Apple.

It's a "standard form contract", aka "contract of adhesion".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_form_contract

> we don't have the power to start a lawsuit against Apple.

Of course you do. You can go to small claims court for a claim of up to ~$5000. Or you can file a class action lawsuit.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#228

Post by aaomidi »

gowld wrote: post #226
aaomidi wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that "it was in the contract that Epic agreed to" is ridiculous. It wasn't a contract that Epic could've disagreed to. This is the same for end users, but we don't have the power to start a lawsuit against Apple.

It's a "standard form contract", aka "contract of adhesion". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_form_contract > we don't have the power to start a lawsuit against Apple. Of course you do. You can go to small claims court for a claim of up to ~$5000. Or you can file a class action lawsuit.

> You can go to small claims court for a claim of up to ~$5000.

Until there is forced arbitration. You're not really going to say I as an individual have any power in the legal system against Apple, right? This is just a bonkers statement.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#229

Post by Hamuko »

amaccuish wrote: post #97

What took me aback was the withdrawing permission to notarise their apps for Mac. That was only meant to be a check for known vulnerabilities/malicious software. Apple was more within their rights to kick Fortnite until the dust has settled from the iOS store, that was the retaliation, but now a mechanism supposedly for security has been repurposed as punishment. That's a pretty nasty move and I feel the mask has sli…

Yeah, it's fucked up if Apple is going to start disabling macOS apps regardless of distribution if the developer has violated their App Store rules in some way. Definitely undermines my trust in macOS.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#230

Post by grumple »

nxc18 wrote: post #180
hu3 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really hope Apple keeps charging 30% app tax and forbidding us from installing apps from outside of App Store?

Yes. In particular, I don't ever want to be in the position that PC users are stuck in, where they can be forced to install certain stores just to get access to the games they want to play. And I certainly don't want to be stuck in the position that Android users are in, where they have to worry about what store they're using, where the software comes from, and whether the app they're about to install is legitimate a…

> where they can be forced to install certain stores just to get access to the games they want to play.

Nobody "forces" us to install certain stores. We are able to if we want to. Whereas there are a ton of apps you cannot install on iOs. Ever.

> There are freedoms to and freedoms from

You know you're not supposed to sympathize with the fascists in Handmaid's Tale, right?

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