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Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

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Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#221

Post by remarkEon »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #213
remarkEon wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know yet, which is the point and why myself and others in this thread are expressing what would otherwise be considered useful and healthy skepticism. Given the general rhetoric of the activists, the scene with the Mayor yesterday when he said he doesn't support disbanding the police, and how easily an extreme position gets support online it's totally plausible that one of the conditions for "disbanding" the…

>The civil bureaucracy is up for grabs too, as the protesters announced yesterday their political goal is to remove the mayor from office The removal of one public official is nothing like the deBaath party decision. Acting like there is a possibility this situation mirrors Iraq is ridiculous.

Sure, I'm well versed in what happened in Iraq believe me. I'm not making a direct comparison here. I'm merely saying that a reboot of the civil bureaucracy is within the realm of possibility, not that we're going to see some kind of "deDFL-ification" of city hall.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#222

Post by 3131s »

Trumpi wrote: post #204
ufmace wrote: post #162

I don't live in Minneapolis, and I don't know if this is the right solution or not. But what bothers me about what I've read so far, is they seem to have remarkably little details about exactly what they want to replace the department with. Exactly what does "community-led public safety" mean?

It sounds like a euphemism for vigilantes, though I certainly hope that this is not what they intend.

Don't worry, private security contractors will step in and fill the void!

I'm from Minneapolis. This was necessary because the MPD has been out of control for a long time, but I too am curious what the actual plans for replacement are, or if this is just a restructuring.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#223

Post by _xnmw »

A lot of commenters are questioning this in disbelief, wondering if a city could actually live without a police department. However, few are noticing that the council's decision is now largely irrelevant, as police departments in America are quickly falling apart on the inside, regardless of what the city council does. A few days ago 57 Buffalo police officers quit the force in protest[1]. If you think about it, of course they would, as they are now unable to do their job (in their usual manner) without the risk of either getting taken to court, or attacked by the public in ambushes and personal attacks[2]. In such an environment, it's no wonder that police officers themselves are refusing to show up to work. And just a few minutes ago during NYC Mayor Blasio's announcement to cut funding to the NYPD [3], a staunch police supporter, I couldn't help thinking: "what sort of collapse must Blasio be seeing, on the inside of the NYPD, in terms of morale." I can only imagine that individual police officers are now genuinely fearing for their lives and their career.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-...

[2] https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-ambush-leaves-1-deputy...

[3] https://www.foxnews.com/us/de-blasio-nyc-to-cut-nypd-funding...

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#224

Post by gameswithgo »

mikekhusid wrote: post #20
TrevorAustin wrote: post #4

"Dissolve the organization and start over from scratch" is an under-used solution in American life, even in the private sector. Apparently Camden, NJ did a version of this in 2013 with a fair amount of success: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde...

The Camden thing is going around a lot but to me it seems like they did a reorg and actually ended up hiring more police. https://www.tapinto.net/towns/camden/sections/law-and-justic...

the goal was not to have less police

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#225

Post by yardie »

Lendal wrote: post #136
PaulWaldman wrote: post #61

Is this equivalent to a software rewrite? Let's just throw the whole thing out and start over. Throwing out a system and starting afresh would likey introduce new bugs/systemic failures that aren't currently present. Is addressing and correcting each specific feature/SOP not an option?

My guess is there's a contract with the current MPD and police union that currently hampers all attempts at reform. This would no longer present a problem if they started over from scratch.

The stumbling block is the police union president, Bob Kroll. Who has an outsized influence over the police. Also pretty consistent white supremacist, doesn't even try and hide it.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#226

Post by NotSammyHagar »

_xnmw wrote: post #223

A lot of commenters are questioning this in disbelief, wondering if a city could actually live without a police department. However, few are noticing that the council's decision is now largely irrelevant, as police departments in America are quickly falling apart on the inside, regardless of what the city council does. A few days ago 57 Buffalo police officers quit the force in protest[1]. If you think about it, of c…

They quit a special task force (around riots) but still have their normal police jobs.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#228

Post by fzeroracer »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #192
guerrilla wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not the goal of police abolitionists: [1] 1. https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/06/police-abo... Some more references: 1. https://www.8toabolition.com/ 2. https://twitter.com/AlexandraErin/status/1268547515038806018 3. https://twitter.com/TravelingNun/status/1268510966116954114

I can understand the sentiment of the people behind those writings, but it doesn't really answer my question. What will replace the Minneapolis police department if it's disbanded? Many (most?) of its current responsibilities and funding can be given to social workers, traffic wardens, and other people not armed with guns, but that doesn't obviate the need for officers of the government to enforce the law. Laws can c…

The answer is in the article itself.

The goal of disbanding the police is so that you can rebuild it from the ground up. It does not mean 'no police ever', it means clearing out the weeds by the roots so that they don't choke the new trees you're trying to plant.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#229

Post by rsynnott »

jsdevwork1 wrote: post #80
morgante wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Camden disbanded their police department and has seen crime drop: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crim... Disbanding the police doesn't mean no public safety measures. It means disbanding the department and rebuilding a new approach to public safety.

Oh you mean replacing the police with... The police. Got it.

Sure. When an organisation is totally broken, ripping up and replacing isn’t alway the worst solution. See the Stasi, for instance, or for a less dramatic shakeup, the RUC.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#230

Post by toomuchcabbage2 »

chinesempire wrote: post #172
jsdevwork1 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving I would suggest living in a third or second world country without outside support. I had your same mindset, and did that for a few years. I could not wait to come back.

Have you ever really tried one for yourself? East Berlin used to be second World, but many of my American friends moved there because they were tired sick of being harassed by their own country brutality and would never go back. Even many African countries are safer than the US if you are black. On the other side, one of the most annoying kind of tourist you can find in my city, which is Rome in Italy, are Americans.…

"Even many African countries are safer than the US if you are black."

Good joke. Reference?

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