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Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

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Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#71

Post by grecy »

chipperyman573 wrote: post #43
jeffbee wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, Americans need to realize that almost everything about our society is a bad first draft, in need of prompt replacement. People reflexively defend existing institutions, but the more I've thought about it over the years, the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving. Police departments might be a good place to start, but most American cities also need to address structural d…

>but the more I've thought about it over the years, the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving There is so much about America that is worth preserving. One easy example right off the top of my head is the law and culture that enables people to peacefully demonstrate like they are today. Even discussing the idea of doing this in many countries could get you killed - or worse! Tha…

Scores of videos in the last week show police brutally beating regular citizens who have assembled peacefully. Recent events are proving the First Amendment sounds great on paper, but is utterly worthless when people actually try to exercise that right.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#72

Post by jsdevwork1 »

jeffbee wrote: post #8
TrevorAustin wrote: post #4

"Dissolve the organization and start over from scratch" is an under-used solution in American life, even in the private sector. Apparently Camden, NJ did a version of this in 2013 with a fair amount of success: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camde...

Indeed, Americans need to realize that almost everything about our society is a bad first draft, in need of prompt replacement. People reflexively defend existing institutions, but the more I've thought about it over the years, the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving. Police departments might be a good place to start, but most American cities also need to address structural d…

>the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving

I would suggest living in a third or second world country without outside support. I had your same mindset, and did that for a few years. I could not wait to come back.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#75

Post by Lazare »

The headline is accurate, but perhaps a bit misleading. A synopsis:

The Minneapolis Police Department has had a long string of scandals, and gradual reform doesn't seem to be working. A majority of the city council seem to have decided to rebuild/replace the department in its entirety.

This seems pretty reasonable. It's not some wild eyed anarcho-libertarian plan to try and build a society without coercive force (perhaps sadly, if you lean that way...); it's just an announcement that a dysfunctional government department is going to be reorganised slightly more thoroughly than was previously planned.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#76

Post by dehrmann »

scarface74 wrote: post #17
sunseb wrote: post #7

What could go wrong? Lunatics are running the asylum it seems. Authority is always here. Disband the police and you will get another arbitrary authority (being gangs, some kind of political repression, and so). There already are no-go zones in Europa where the police don't go anymore, believe me, you wouldn't want to live there. If you don't want the official police anymore, why not starting with your place, your hom…

How is that any different than the lawless gangs that have the force of government behind them?

At least in the case of George Floyd, one of officers was charged with murder, the other three with aiding and abetting, so they're clearly not lawless gangs. We'll see what happens at trial, but this is a fair level of scrutiny for what happened; if police faced charges like this every time one of these deaths happened, they'd be a lot more careful.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#77

Post by Wowfunhappy »

cryptoz wrote: post #52
jimbob45 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Bodycams - Mandatory psych evals half-yearly - Anonymous corruption reporting - Reduce/eliminate drug penalties - Eliminate civil forfeiture - Ticketing revenues no longer fund the department - Expanded auditing of violent calls Unfortunately, the greater group of protesters is incapable of understanding nuanced policy or democratic change. I fully expect MN to swing red this election as a result of this.

- What happens when the bodycams are off? Is the officer fired and jailed? - What happens when an officer fails the pysch eval? Are they fired? - Who oversees the corruption reporting? How do you know they are not corrupt too? They surely can't be part of the police dept. - Reduce/eliminate drug penalties: The problem is racism where drugs are often used as the excuse. Why is there no racism training in your list? Or…

> What happens when the bodycams are off? Is the officer fired and jailed?

If an officer's bodycam is turned off and there is a confrontation, the officer should be assumed guilty in any dispute. It should be the officer's responsibility to ensure their bodycam works, just as it is the officer's responsibility to ensure their gun works.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#78

Post by corndoge »

cryptoz wrote: post #52
jimbob45 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Bodycams - Mandatory psych evals half-yearly - Anonymous corruption reporting - Reduce/eliminate drug penalties - Eliminate civil forfeiture - Ticketing revenues no longer fund the department - Expanded auditing of violent calls Unfortunately, the greater group of protesters is incapable of understanding nuanced policy or democratic change. I fully expect MN to swing red this election as a result of this.

- What happens when the bodycams are off? Is the officer fired and jailed? - What happens when an officer fails the pysch eval? Are they fired? - Who oversees the corruption reporting? How do you know they are not corrupt too? They surely can't be part of the police dept. - Reduce/eliminate drug penalties: The problem is racism where drugs are often used as the excuse. Why is there no racism training in your list? Or…

It's not rude, it's a reasonable list of suggestions.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#79

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

"...MPD announced last year the discovery of 1,700 untested rape kits spanning 30 years, which officials said had been misplaced."

This leads me to think that there are some objective metrics by which a police department's performance can be measured. For a department to have 1,700 untested rape kits (vs. nearly 2500 rapes reported in 2019) seems outrageous, even if it represents a low percentage of total reported. Why wouldn't a police department ensure that every reported rape with evidence collected is properly followed up? They say many or all of these kits were misplaced, which simply leads to more questions about procedures, policies, and internal discipline.

It seems that a standardized approach to department evaluation and oversight is needed. Corporations employ internal accounting personnel, external auditing personnel, and then submit to audits by the IRS. If there were a similar approach to oversight for police departments, with data made transparent as it is for public companies, perhaps most those 1,700 women would have justice.

Re: Minneapolis City Council members announce intent to disband police department

#80

Post by jsdevwork1 »

morgante wrote: post #60
jsdevwork1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will play out quite predictably: more crime, organized and otherwise.

Nope. Camden disbanded their police department and has seen crime drop: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/01/what-happened-to-crim... Disbanding the police doesn't mean no public safety measures. It means disbanding the department and rebuilding a new approach to public safety.

Oh you mean replacing the police with... The police. Got it.
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