Live data from Hacker News

Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

pewresearch.org

221–230 of 250 posts

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#221
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big hope of the UBI movement is that it will "pay" people to take care of one another in a way that our usual monetary transfer for services rendered simply can't handle well. That is, someone taking care of their parent is not going to be paid for that service in our economy, but with a UBI, it allows one to get that economic support without it being a usual "job". The work of maintaining genuine social relationsh…

UBI will create the conditions for more suicides. Work can create purpose. UBI alone would strengthen the family unit and reduce external relationships.

> UBI will create the conditions for more suicides. Work can create purpose.

I completely agree, but isn't a major motivation behind UBI a lack of job availability due to automation?

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#222
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also why a lot of spouses pass soon after the other. They lose hope and the reason to get out of bed each morning. I keep assuming that as jobs are automated away that we are going to have more people who can do work like visiting elderly people. It also can more than pay for itself by keeping people on their medication regimens and preventing costly hospital visits.

A big hope of the UBI movement is that it will "pay" people to take care of one another in a way that our usual monetary transfer for services rendered simply can't handle well. That is, someone taking care of their parent is not going to be paid for that service in our economy, but with a UBI, it allows one to get that economic support without it being a usual "job". The work of maintaining genuine social relationsh…

I liked the idea of UBI, but once people have the ability to vote for for politicians who promise to raise the UBI, wouldn't they just keep raising it until capital exits stage left and the economy devolves into a poor socialist economy? It seems like it could be setting a dangerous precedent. Once you start giving people free money, its political suicide to take it away. Look at Greece and Argentina as examples.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a fantastic post. I feel exactly the same way. My kids sometimes feel too needy. Oftentimes I never get the desired downtime. My wife got mad at me one day and said "You need to listen to Harry Chapin's Cat's in the Cradle. Then come talk with me." It's a shock to listen to that song, because it's true. It would be easy to end up like that and no one want it.

Ha, I think about that song easily once every couple of months. It's a very challenging balancing act especially in today's America which expects parents to spend tons of time with their kids.

Yeah both parents have to work 40 hours plus, maintain a home, eat at least one sit down meal together, spend time with children, time with each other to maintain a relationship. I as introvert have no time for being alone. And I need that. I try to walk to and from work as often as possible now just so I can have a quiet 20 minutes to myself with no demands or obligations on me. I find myself staying up late just to have it quiet.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big hope of the UBI movement is that it will "pay" people to take care of one another in a way that our usual monetary transfer for services rendered simply can't handle well. That is, someone taking care of their parent is not going to be paid for that service in our economy, but with a UBI, it allows one to get that economic support without it being a usual "job". The work of maintaining genuine social relationsh…

I liked the idea of UBI, but once people have the ability to vote for for politicians who promise to raise the UBI, wouldn't they just keep raising it until capital exits stage left and the economy devolves into a poor socialist economy? It seems like it could be setting a dangerous precedent. Once you start giving people free money, its political suicide to take it away. Look at Greece and Argentina as examples.

I wouldn't worry about it. Lower class people have been voting for governments that give them the shaft for as long as democracy has been a thing. Why would UBI change that?

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#226
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big hope of the UBI movement is that it will "pay" people to take care of one another in a way that our usual monetary transfer for services rendered simply can't handle well. That is, someone taking care of their parent is not going to be paid for that service in our economy, but with a UBI, it allows one to get that economic support without it being a usual "job". The work of maintaining genuine social relationsh…

UBI will create the conditions for more suicides. Work can create purpose. UBI alone would strengthen the family unit and reduce external relationships.

It's not hard to find purpose in life that doesn't revolve around sitting at a desk doing fuck all and pretending to work for 40 hours a week.

People will still work. Whether it's to get a leg up from the baseline or because it's something their passionate about, nothing will stop people from banding together to solve common goals. The current state of work is just a really shitty abstraction over that. I would have thought software engineers of all people would understand that.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#227
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to, they're just greedy and "need" to have a new BMW and Lexus every few years, live in fashionable neighborhoods in expensive metros, and have "important" jobs. You don't need that shit in Cleveland.

Not everyone is how they appear and your disregard and assumption of greed is just sad. For example, I'm going to college, working 'and' working on a side project. I face the near future prospect of having to support myself and two parents, which hardly requires greed on my part. This situation is far from uncommon.

You don't need a side project.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#228
post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

> (Americans fetishize a sort of "rugged individualism" where you alone can solve every problem you're faced with or else it's not a real problem) Nearly any attempt paint American Culture with broad strokes is going to fail.. but using absolute terms like you're doing here A) is wildly inaccurate, and B) negatively portrays a pretty neutral personal ideology. I value individualism for the same reasons I devalue conf…

There aren't really any negative words in the comment though. It's correlating individualism with "atomized," "alone" and shallow family ties. To the extent that one fits into this so-called "rugged individualist" trope (which I agree is a little hackneyed, but also not totally unfounded), I would think those would all be and sound like positives. Because every friend, every relative - everyone you could possibly get into any kind of mutually non-hatred-based relationship with - is someone you have to please. You're no longer doing whatever you want; you're balancing that against what the other person wants, or what you might owe them, or what you might someday want from them (Golden Rule) etc. Relationships survive on mutual interest and mutual aid. It's about cooperating with people and doesn't have much to do with freedom. [Because hey, you're free to abandon those relationships. You can completely ignore those people and their concerns, desires and interests. But they'll soon start ignoring yours, and there you go, the units that were joined are now separate, but since they can't themselves be divided they are how do I say this, atomized.]

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#229

I'm 34 and once you add in the weekends I am and talking is extremely discouraged at work, in an open office, so even at work you're basically alone just siting there listening to music or podcasts all day. At Gym1 I talk to my lifting coach but most of the time I'm in my head focused on training, after that at Gym2 I'm just trying to do my accessory work and conditioning and don't talk to anyone other than "hey" bac…

“talking is extremely discouraged at work, in an open office, so even at work you're basically alone just siting there listening to music or podcasts all day” That’s the nutty thing about open office. The thing that’s officially supposed to encourage collaboration leads to people sitting there with headphones trying to isolate themselves and rules to not talk to each other.

First tech job: started out as cubicle work. Got in at 9, hour break for lunch with coworkers, then completely focused with extremely few social interactions for the rest of the day.

On occasion, I would meet 1-on-1 with a coworker in their cube for an extended period of time to discuss some large technical design I wanted to sort out.

A year into this, the company redid the building into open-office space (but where everyone still had their own L-shaped desks and they were only packed maybe 20% more densely than the cubes. Now you never talk with someone at their desk for more than a minute, because while you talk you’re distracting everyone. So even less collaboration.

Second tech job: this one has always been open office. It’s packed much tighter: I have a person four feet to my left and four feet to my right, more in front and more in back. At any moment, one of them might just pipe up a relatively simple question to me (“where do I look in the codebase to find X functionality”): something he could find out on his own, but asking me saves 5-10 minutes. The 5 people around me are on my team. The people behind me are on a different team. There’s conversation across the teams at least hourly, an even split between jokes/banter and technical talk. If you overhear a conversation, you’re totally welcome to insert yourself into it, and doing so is the norm.

In this open office, collaboration is more of a real thing. If someone left feedback on your code change, half the time the discussion on how specifically to address it is done in person without leaving your desk. I’m able to identify topics that are raised frequently and recognize where the real organizational issues are, because it’s all discussed right there in the open. And I’m exposed to a diverse range of ideas and solutions just by choosing to listen. A few times a week I might even pair program with one of my teammates and learn something (vim commands I didn’t know about, a new way to use one of our in-house tools, or just practice).

The difference between these two is stunning. And jarring: I’ve gone about a year now without reaching a state of flow at work. I’m not even sure if half the people I work with have ever experienced it in their life (while programming). But I’m learning to adapt. I tend to work in short bursts of productivity throughout the day which leaves me with more energy at the end than being heads down at my desk for 8 hours. The code I write is far more reliable than what I used to write —— undoubtedly because of the collaboration.

Not all offices of a particular style are equal. I think it’s silly to label open offices as either universally good or universally evil: the ideal work environment depends on the execution, the context of the work, and the individual.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#230

I’m a grad student. I work in an empty lab. I’m lucky if somebody else is there 4 hours a week. I go home to an empty house. Once a week, I have beers with a friend. Count that up. I’m alone (168-8)/168 hours a week. Cry me a fucking river.

I did that too when I was young, but I think it would kill me now.

Having painful experiences can either help you be more empathetic to others with the same kind of pain, or less. Why not try for more?

Post reply on HN