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Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

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Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#221

Post by thatfrenchguy »

devmunchies wrote: post #180
charlesdm wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are (somewhat) stupid in their early 20s. I don't disagree that not everyone belongs in university, however, most people don't realise that until it is too late and are already in debt. Free higher education works well in the European countries that offer it. What better investment could a society make than allow someone to pursue a field they are passionate about, and letting them start life with a clean…

>Free higher education works well in the European countries that offer it It depends what you're looking at. I think it hurts local communities by exporting all the young talent and gets people plugged into the white collar, global economy. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what I do, but I think a lot of the time in college could have been better spent learning how to build houses, make furniture, grow food, etc. If the g…

> grow food

Then go do a degree on agro engineering ?

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#222

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

jedmeyers wrote: post #141
quentindemetz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

« People in Europe » have elected politicians who have enacted these tax policies. Money is not being taken by force...

People with guns literally come to your house and put you in jail if you don't pay taxes. Not taken by force? Can one person come to your house and take your money? Can ten? At what point it becomes "not by force"?

Could you provide an alternative to this "violent" taxation with real world, contemporary examples of a system that provides the benefits of a modern nation?

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#223

Post by vonmoltke »

maxxxxx wrote: post #216
SkyBelow wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

I think it's the other way. If you pay a lot of money then you sort of can expect to get a degree at the end. When I went to school in Germany they made a lot of effort to weed out people. If it's for free you can't really complain but if you already have paid $100000 it's harder for the school to justify people failing the course.

Public funding sources can be tied to students and their success as well. If failing students means lower ratings and enrollment for the school, which in turn means lower funding levels, the school has just as much incentive to keep students advancing.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#224

Post by monetus »

skookumchuck wrote: post #202
monetus wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but understand his as well. I think it's mostly a cultural problem rather than some instinctual problem with humanity. Japan has a culture of cleanliness as far as I can tell. In my area, however, a handful practices seem to persist because of the fun derived from exploiting the commons.

Many times I hear the phrase "what do you care, it's a rental!" People who buy used cars tend to avoid ex-rentals. Once a group I was in was staying in a hotel. We were all heading out to dinner, and one person came out of her room, leaving the light on. I asked why she didn't turn out the light. She replied: "why should I? I'm not paying the electric bill." Apparently that's pretty common, as most hotel rooms I stay…

This is so frustrating because it describes my family...

They understand empathy and the concept of a carbon footprint, but don't consider them when it comes to decision making. In my experience, it is as if it isn't a variable in the equation.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#225

Post by tantalor »

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #211
tantalor wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that stuff is funded with borrowing, not taxes.

How do you think the loans get paid back, exactly? It's funded with borrowing because it makes no sense to take in enough tax revenues to build something in a single year when it's going to get used for twenty.

How are the loans paid back? Easy, more borrowing!

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#226

Post by tracker1 »

SkyBelow wrote: post #143
llamataboot wrote: post #101

Let's scale this up huge, let everyone take part, and have all of society invest in education and reap the rewards. We can call it "public education" and even capture the public externalities of having a well-educated population!

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

It's absolutely NOT free, and may not be without strings... such as your area of study (major), how far you want to go. Demonstrated competency going in, etc.

In this case, the investor(s) could look at the potential value/income for the person going in. If you want to focus on an area that has limited job prospects and low salary, then you're unlikely to get funding.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#227

Post by tracker1 »

leggomylibro wrote: post #175
SkyBelow wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

Who cares if we drop the standards to earn a degree? In a theoretical world where high-quality public education is freely available, who cares about earning a degree at all? The most successful and competent people who I have ever worked with don't share much in the way of education, but they all feel some sort of passion and drive for what they do. They see potential in their work and think about it all the time, so…

It anything this would increase the standards... this type of thing comes down to convincing someone that you are able to complete said goals, and that the degree you are working towards and the school itself is worth it.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#228

Post by Amygaz »

pcstl wrote: post #187
leggomylibro wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares if we drop the standards to earn a degree? In a theoretical world where high-quality public education is freely available, who cares about earning a degree at all? The most successful and competent people who I have ever worked with don't share much in the way of education, but they all feel some sort of passion and drive for what they do. They see potential in their work and think about it all the time, so…

People will care about earning a degree because the rat race never ends. When you devalue university degrees, people will start earning degrees just because they can and because clueless employers grasp at any straw they can use to differentiate between applicants. That's how it becomes impossible to get a half-decent job without a college degree.

That’s pretty much the current state of affair. People go to college because that’s what you do after high school. Ideally at an Ivy League because it looks much better. Then you go to grad school because that’s what you do after undergrad...

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#229

Post by tracker1 »

will_brown wrote: post #142
harryh wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a student with an ISA doesn't get a good job after graduation, the school gets nothing (or not much). If the student does get a good job, the school gets paid more. Thus the school is highly incentivized to make sure that their graduating students are highly employable. This is very different from the other systems where the school gets paid no matter what happens after graduation.

>If a student with an ISA doesn't get a good job after graduation, the school gets nothing (or not much). The school isn’t the one making these deals (at least from the example in the article), private investors are entering into these agreements with students. If the student doesn’t get a job the private investors don’t get paid, whereas the school has already been paid.

If the school doesn't perform, the investors won't keep investing in students going to said school and enrollment drops. It's economics working. It would probably also carry over into fields of study, and length of study with escape hatches.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#230

Post by tracker1 »

SkyBelow wrote: post #197
jfk13 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "make more money" the best criterion we can find for determining what educational paths should be encouraged and supported? It's bad enough that students are likely to be naturally drawn towards certain career choices - such as advertising technology - because of the generous pay to be found in that sector, rather than because they see an opportunity to make the world a better place. Let's not give educational ins…

>Is "make more money" the best criterion we can find for determining what educational paths should be encouraged and supported? First, that is quite a different question than the one I was answering. When someone is asked what is the best way to eat an elephant and tries to give an answer, mentioning that people shouldn't eat elephants is a comment better directed at the person asking the original question and not th…

Well, is investing in a field of study that graduates 5000 students a year, but only has about 50 new jobs in that field available make any sense?

Yes, you should have to be able to make a living at something to convince someone to loan you the money, even on ISA terms.

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