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Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#221

Post by thisacctforreal »

wgerard wrote: post #139
anigbrowl wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've already had a look inside his head, because he joked with his friends about how naive the people giving their information to him were for trusting, and how they were dumb fucks that he looked forward to fucking in the ear. Sure, he might have changed since, but there's nothing wrong with rational speculation. Selfishness and greed are real phenomena in human relations so it would be as foolish to ignore such po…

> We've already had a look inside his head, because he joked with his friends about how naive the people giving their information to him were for trusting, and how they were dumb fucks that he looked forward to fucking in the ear. You're reading a lot into a (admittedly stupid) quip/jab/whatever-you-want-to-call it by a 19 year old. I don't even disagree with your fundamental assertion here, just that this is incredi…

I don't know, to me it doesn't seem like he's stopped regarding his users as dumb fucks.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#222

Post by AsyncAwait »

passn wrote: post #143
mindgam3 wrote: post #61

I've known Chris Cox since freshman year of college and he was an informal advisor to my first startup. The NYT article referenced in hashberry's earlier comment includes a key quote: “For over a decade, I’ve been sharing the same message that Mark and I have always believed: Social media’s history is not yet written, and its effects are not neutral,” Mr. Cox said in a note to employees on Thursday. “As its builders…

"Zuckerberg's vision of Facebook as a good thing for the world was a lie" - That is such a broad generalization. In the developing world where I live Facebook gives me the opportunity to maintain contact with my family who live on the other side of the world, as I walk the streets of São Paulo, for free. There are hundreds of millions of others like me who keep in contact with their family because of Facebook (and th…

Facebook is certainly not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. What they want to do is essentially exploit the fact that data is so expensive in so many countries, in order to make Facebook equal 'the internet' there.

I understand somewhat why it's working, but still find it kind of depressing that it's being actively cheered on.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#223

Post by chillacy »

o10449366 wrote: post #118
whalesalad wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe anyone was unable to see through the bullshit on FB from the very very beginning. Does ANYONE there now, or at any time in the past, have any real belief that what they're doing is connecting the world? It's a money making machine, plain and simple. (Money making machines are not bad, as long as there is never any dog and pony show about being some higher form of existence) I think that the people lea…

It's easy to believe the bullshit when that money machine is funding your six figure salary, free meals, unlimited vacation, recreational and health services, and 401K and Roth. That's why there are engineers at Google right now working on a censorship machine at the directive of the Chinese government. I find it highly doubtful that they would still believe the project is a net good on the world and not motivated by…

I would be careful not to assume that your morality is the only morality. The world is a big place and there are diverse ideas and beliefs all around.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#224

Post by floatrock »

vonmoltke wrote: post #219
floatrock wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to read a blog post talking about how to make free consumer web apps without monetizing user data. I really would. That's the crux of the issue here -- is there an alternative to the ad-tech playbook? There's all the Redhat / enterprise open-source examples, but I'm specifically talking about consumer web products . Redhat's product is enterprise infrastructure. There's free as in a trial or limited function…

Absolutely none of what you wrote has anything to do with legal duties.

Yep. When people have dug-in to their trenches, shouting even louder is pointless.

This was about the other half of the reply that hasn't been explored. Lets make threads here more interesting than an infinite uh-huh!/nuh-uhh!/uh-huh! loop.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#225

Post by tedivm »

jedberg wrote: post #199
yaseer wrote: post #168

Facebook is big tobacco. Intelligent people generating profits that knowingly harms society (even if you do get some joy from a cigarette, that doesn't justify working for a tobacco company). I really hope the smart people at Facebook see the obvious parallel, and choose another career. History will judge you.

Not exactly. Tobacco has no benefits to society except possibly a dopamine hit for the user. Facebook has a lot of positives to go along with its negatives. For me, it's the only way I stay in touch with a lot of my friends from high school. And I know that it's only because of Facebook, because Facebook didn't exist for the first 10 years after I graduated, and most of my friends didn't get on it until about 15 year…

I hear this quite a lot from the people who have worked at "damaging" companies (facebook, reddit, twitter, uber) but I still have to wonder if the personal benefits these platforms bring are really worth the societal cost, and if people are just using the idea that they can "change things from inside" as a justification for taking money to damage the world.

Don't get me wrong, I think that communication is great. It's fantastic that grandchildren can talk to their grandparents without their parents having to get off the couch and help. But is it worth people literally dying[1][2]? Is being able to post funny memes worth giving violent communities a place to thrive[4]?

At the end of the day people have to make their own decisions about things, but I think that tech workers as a whole are way to eager to wash their hands of the matter, take a paycheck, and blame others while ignoring that these companies could not function without them.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2019-facebook-neverending...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo...

[3] https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/facebook-un-myanmar-geno...

[4] https://www.fastcompany.com/90244757/the-inside-story-of-red...

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#226

Post by arunv »

freyir wrote: post #189
arunv wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any other company in their shoes would have had a mass exodus. Chris was a big part of making employees feel like they shared a piece of the dream. Whatever your thoughts about Facebook, the fact that some of the smartest people have worked, and continue to work at a company "beset by scandal" should give you pause.

Money. They pay many people salaries that they’d have trouble getting elsewhere. If these people stick around for the dream even after the money dries up, then I’ll be impressed. The sentiment I’ve heard so far is “let’s wait this out, and hope it goes back to business as usual.” The ethical have likely left already. Those who are most talented and in it for the money will likely be next out, if things don’t turn aro…

I personally know many people that stayed / have stayed 9-10 years at Facebook, long after the IPO and long after vesting.

I think people really underestimate the value of sheer impact on end users. I know the news about FB hasn't been positive, but as an engineer a lot of people would jump at the opportunity to literally change the world every month.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#227

Post by therealdrag0 »

DataJunkie wrote: post #71

I used to be a fan of Facebook, but I was never obsessed with it. I even used to work there. I'm over it. It's useful for groups, some of the ads really are useful, it's nice to sometimes keep up with people that are far away, but the news feed has had done way more harm than good for our society, including my own life. After the 2016 Election, Facebook posts lead to so much drama in my family that certain "branches"…

This and another NYT had quotes implying they're gonna try shift towards more private communications. I hope they pull it off, but I wont hold my breath.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#228

Post by smileysteve »

jedberg wrote: post #199
yaseer wrote: post #168

Facebook is big tobacco. Intelligent people generating profits that knowingly harms society (even if you do get some joy from a cigarette, that doesn't justify working for a tobacco company). I really hope the smart people at Facebook see the obvious parallel, and choose another career. History will judge you.

Not exactly. Tobacco has no benefits to society except possibly a dopamine hit for the user. Facebook has a lot of positives to go along with its negatives. For me, it's the only way I stay in touch with a lot of my friends from high school. And I know that it's only because of Facebook, because Facebook didn't exist for the first 10 years after I graduated, and most of my friends didn't get on it until about 15 year…

> Facebook has a lot of positives to go along with its negatives. For me, it's the only way I stay in touch with a lot of my friends from high school.

Ask a reluctant smoker why they won't quit, beyond the addiction it's

1. Social. People talk during smoke breaks. They form bonds over smoke breaks. A 5 minute smoke break per hour means you spend 40 minutes around a friend, co worker, in relative private.

It's even a top way strangers meet each other, bumming a cigarette or smoking together.

I worked with a smoker, the best way for me to get his time so that I could get my questions answered was on his smoke break.

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#229

Post by _bxg1 »

I don't see how they can make money on truly private communications channels. If they aren't gathering data, and they aren't showing ads (who would put up with ads in IM?), where does the money come from? Is it just a way to hold on to users for future monetization?

Re: Facebook Loses Top Executives, Including Chris Cox

#230

Post by Gorbzel »

chillacy wrote: post #223
o10449366 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to believe the bullshit when that money machine is funding your six figure salary, free meals, unlimited vacation, recreational and health services, and 401K and Roth. That's why there are engineers at Google right now working on a censorship machine at the directive of the Chinese government. I find it highly doubtful that they would still believe the project is a net good on the world and not motivated by…

I would be careful not to assume that your morality is the only morality. The world is a big place and there are diverse ideas and beliefs all around.

It's not his morality unless he works at Facebook.
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