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Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

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Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#221

Post by pm90 »

oblio wrote: post #72
pm90 wrote: post #51

What this articles doesn't mention that much is that IBM and Google are both betting on catching the wave of containerization by following a somewhat similar strategy. They're both focusing on a container-native, Kubernetes oriented and opinionated cloud. They're both heavily investing in Kubernetes development, AI integrated technologies and the results are visible in the quality of their container offering. Despite…

> They may be late to the cloud, but they have some of the best people. There's been plenty of projects filled with very smart people that have failed.

I think my comment mentioned a lot of reasons why they might succeed and not just because they're staffed with smart people. Cherry-picking a statement like this really adds no value to the discussion.

Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#222

Post by chaoticmass »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #101

I have never been a fan of IBM but if you like open stack for dev ops then their BlueBiz service is nice, with a very generous free tier. I have always favored GCP over AWS but Amazon does win in the customer support offered. It will be interesting to see if Google invests in non-automated human teams for sales and support.

BueBiz? Do you mean Blue Mix?

Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#223

Post by landa »

spricket wrote: post #87

The reason for IBM's failure is pretty obvious. Their old school bare-metal servers at Softlayer are a good value, but the need for bare metal is decreasing with IO improvements like SR-IOV and real hardware level virtualization (ex HVM on AWS). I've also heard IBM is running that division into the ground. Their cloud offering sucks. Last time I was curious, I couldn't even figure out how much my server would cost. T…

I find it much easier to use Google Cloud Platform compared to AWS. That's why I use it over AWS.

Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#224

Post by true_tuna »

Hey google. You want people to use your cloud? Fix your documentation. It’s abysmal. For example: 1) How do you use let’s encrypt with google kubernetes engine? 2) How do you securely store secrets? Pretend you don’t know and try to follow the documentation to figure it out. You can’t because the documentation isn’t geared towards solving specific problems. I have no idea what it IS geared towards, but it’s not that. You will never win if people can’t figure out how to do the things they need to do. Aws is arguably more expensive and in some ways less capable. But they will win simply because normal people can figure out how to do stuff.

Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#225

Post by pm90 »

mancerayder wrote: post #178
aqwsedopl wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft’s bias towards windows stunted it’s growth severely. It seems googles bias towards its ad-revenue based models is something similar. Specifically, googles inability to adopt a customer-service oriented mindset and customer-privacy will be its end. Is search really it’s core strength anymore? I’d think it’s more it’s ability to reindex in a day and filter out spam. Fundamentally, as long as google offers fre…

Specifically, googles inability to adopt a customer-service oriented mindset and customer-privacy will be its end. Is search really it’s core strength anymore? I’d think it’s more it’s ability to reindex in a day and filter out spam. I thought the core business was vacuuming up personal data for ad-targeting resale purposes? I would love for them to actually a nicer tech company that offers services like GCP and leav…

Interesting. Its hard to see them giving up their biggest source of revenue, but thats a good point: GCP could possibly be their next killer-app allowing them to rely less on the personal data vacuuming they're infamous for.

Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#226

Post by munchbunny »

yuy910616 wrote: post #207
devy wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the biggest issue with GCP is they still don't have the "DNA" to do enterprise support at the level large companies expect, while AWS does. You nailed it. Coming from 8-years of AWS and working on GCP for the last 4, enterprise support is the BIGGEST differentiator IMO between AWS and GCP. GCP's services are usually technical advanced sooner (encryption architecture, various of compliances certification, et…

Well I wouldn't say their consumer facing products are bad. We've spend $70mil a year with them for google ads and I would say their support for Ads are fantastic.

Google's quality of support tends to correlate strongly with how much money you pay them. They treat their large advertisers very well, but for that very same product, support under $1mil/year is pretty bad, and that's actually still quite a bit of spend.

Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#227

Post by WorldMaker »

chii wrote: post #112
richardw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure was pretty late but their main fairly simple task was to cloud-enable the massive .net/MS-SQL army. Initial attempts weren't great (Azure tables, branding changes) but they iterated fast and knocked it out the park. Google is replicating Amazon now (after failing with app engine), but without the mindshare. Amazing because they are the cloud story - many cheap computers rather than huge ones. App Engine hurt th…

> App Engine hurt them so much they have a hell of a job to recover and now have to compete using someone else's playbook. why did this hurt them? I thought appengine was great when i used it (granted, i never paid them for it - the free tier was way too generous).

It gave a lot of developers for a long time an impression that Google only really cares about (maybe) Java and Python and other languages are SOL?

It gave a lot of developers for a long time an impression that Google both very much wanted proprietary lock-in (App Engine APIs were extremely distinct to other libraries commonly used for those tasks in those languages), but didn't have the dedication to support a lot of backward/forward compatibility and were happy to change those proprietary APIs seemingly on a whim?

Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#228

Post by munchbunny »

sempron64 wrote: post #186
dsl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure is bought in the boardroom, not by the engineers and ops staff that will use it on a day to day basis. When you have a $xx million Azure minimum commit that your C-level has already written a check for, you yell at your account team until they add Linux support and try to make due with what you have. I've heard internal numbers that Linux VMs outnumber Windows 2-to-1, but that they see long term value in doing…

Actually Azure has a huge hook at the engineering level in that Visual Studio Enterprise subscriptions come with $150 a month in Azure credit. It's very hard to avoid using when you just need to slap a quick demo online and need a server or DB and your in-house IT is away, it's all right there in the IDE... and then you're in hook, line, and sinker. So while there are C-suite level mega-sales, Azure has plenty of gra…

That's actually a great point, Visual Studio becomes a distribution point for Azure client software and SDK's, meaning you potentially don't have to do any extra configuration the way AWS and GCP require.

Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#229

Post by takeda »

fredguth wrote: post #71
richardw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure was pretty late but their main fairly simple task was to cloud-enable the massive .net/MS-SQL army. Initial attempts weren't great (Azure tables, branding changes) but they iterated fast and knocked it out the park. Google is replicating Amazon now (after failing with app engine), but without the mindshare. Amazing because they are the cloud story - many cheap computers rather than huge ones. App Engine hurt th…

Right. My only complaint on AWS is how confusing it is. Gcloud is much simpler, IMO.

AWS is easier to set up than to plan your own data center. The difference is that people who opt for AWS think they no longer need ops, and don't even have knowledge of networking. You still should have at least one network engineer to plan VPC and subnet layout.

As for GCP, I think it seems easier, because by default it uses public IPs for each instance. That doesn't necessarily mean that one you set up an instance and it runs, you did it correctly.

One nice thing though is that Google uses SDN for their internal networking and that made some things easier. Particularly seamless communication with other regions.

Re: Google and IBM still trying desperately to move cloud market share needle

#230

Post by yuy910616 »

munchbunny wrote: post #226
yuy910616 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I wouldn't say their consumer facing products are bad. We've spend $70mil a year with them for google ads and I would say their support for Ads are fantastic.

Google's quality of support tends to correlate strongly with how much money you pay them. They treat their large advertisers very well, but for that very same product, support under $1mil/year is pretty bad, and that's actually still quite a bit of spend.

yeah completely agree.
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