What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#221

Post by thaumasiotes » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

dmichulke wrote: post #208

thaumasiotes wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English "foot" (and the equivalent Germanic words) are cognate with the Latin word "pes" (= foot), but do not descend from it. It's not a Latin root.

Not an etymologist, but I think they still have a common ancestor (proto Indo-European?). Lots of words in Latin with p have an equivalent with f in the Germanic languages: Pater - father Pes - foot Primus - first Note the English word is not necessarily the closest to the Latin one. P and f are also considered the same sound in a few word distance metrics such as Soundex for the very same reason.

Yes, having a common ancestor is what "cognate" means. (Technically, in normal usage, "cognate" refers to words that (1) have a common ancestor and also (2) mean the same thing.) To use the familial metaphor, you descend from your mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, and so on, but you are cognate with your niece, cousin, aunt, great-aunt, etc.

"Foot" and "pes" both descend from the same Indo-European root, but the English word has no influence from the Latin one. Compare "pedestrian", which uses the Latin root directly.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#222

Post by Buldak » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 10:05 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #29

throwawaysea wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to me like a different problem (one of education or enforcement of traffic laws), although I acknowledge that a middle ground helps. I have not had the same experience as you where I am - maybe that is because we have traffic signals in some places, or crosswalks with flashing lights in others, or more courteous drivers for the rest of it (unmarked crossings), but I definitely feel plenty safe walking arou…

> That seems to me like a different problem (one of education or enforcement of traffic laws), although I acknowledge that a middle ground helps. The choice boils down to a dense, very large police force, versus streets designed to make good behavior natural. The latter can be a lot cheaper (and will involve many fewer tickets) than the former.

There's a crosswalk I pass on my way to work that always makes me think of this. An elementary school is located there, and every weekday morning there is a crossing guard (someone with lights and a hand sign who stops traffic to help kids cross) posted there. To be sure, I expect this person is indeed necessary, as traffic in that area is heavy and fast. But it strikes me as a dysfunctional that we need people dedicated just to allowing children to safely cross the street.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#223

Post by smallnamespace » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

dmichulke wrote: post #208

thaumasiotes wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English "foot" (and the equivalent Germanic words) are cognate with the Latin word "pes" (= foot), but do not descend from it. It's not a Latin root.

Not an etymologist, but I think they still have a common ancestor (proto Indo-European?). Lots of words in Latin with p have an equivalent with f in the Germanic languages: Pater - father Pes - foot Primus - first Note the English word is not necessarily the closest to the Latin one. P and f are also considered the same sound in a few word distance metrics such as Soundex for the very same reason.

In fact, the pattern you noted is so distinctive of Germanic that linguists have actually given it a name:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm%27s_law#Examples

The first part of the law is a general stop to fricative pattern, so not just p->f, but also t->th, k->h, etc.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#224

Post by bytematic » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 12:06 AM UTC

One of my favorite streets in Madison, WI is no car traffic. Really great for business, getting across town, and general atmosphere.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#225

Post by mcv » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 12:06 AM UTC

ashton314 wrote: post #55

I lived in Germany for two years without a car. The public transportation there was amazing—I learned to appreciate how little I needed a car, provided the infrastructure was good enough/I had a bike. In many cities there's a "Fußgängerzone": pedestrian-only areas; these were mostly found in the city center where the streets and shops are too dense to allow much traffic. I remember specifically in Frankfurt am Main a…

Many Dutch cities also have car-free pedestrian areas in their city centers. And it's not just that the biggest shopping centers happen to be there, it is exactly the busy shopping areas that are made car-free, so people can shop there in peace. There's usually a ring of car parking lots around the center, as well as on the edge of the town, so people can leave their car early and cheaply while continuing their trip to the center using public transport.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#226

Post by mcv » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 12:21 AM UTC

labster wrote: post #141

Of course, this could never happen in the United States. A friend of mine, a single mother, was arrested and charged for letting her kids play without an adult present in the park across the street from her apartment. There are lots of scary people with guns out there, you see. If only it was possible to do something about that.

I've heard more stories about kids in the US not being allowed to play outside. Of all the bizarre stories I read about life in the US, this one is still the most baffling to me.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#227

Post by mcv » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 12:27 AM UTC

krylon wrote: post #4

closeparen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the kids wanted to, letting them play in the street would be unthinkable to contemporary parents. Trusting drivers to pay attention would be foolish.

In Germany, we have "Verkehrsberuhigte Zonen"[0] (Wikipedia says the english term is "living street"), where the speed limit is very low, and drivers are expected to look out for playing children. It works relatively well, at least in residential areas. Usually such streets are built in such a way you cannot go very fast any way. [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkehrsberuhigter_Bereich / https://en.wikipedia.org/…

They're called "woonerf" in Netherland. Cars drive at walking pace, and pedestrians, particularly playing kids, always have right of way.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#228

Post by mcv » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 12:30 AM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #20

darkpuma wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America driving at 6 km/h (3.7mph) in a parking lot would induce road rage in other drivers. Trying to make roads with a 6 km/h speed limit would be political suicide for any politician that recommended it.

That's literally a slow walking pace. Kids running would be breaking the speed limit. Bikes would always be breaking the limit. The speedo in my car isn't even accurate at speeds that low.

It's not about a hard speed limit, it's about driving at walking pace. It's not for thoroughfares, it's for cul-de-sacs where people live and children play. No car has any business going fast there.

Bikes aren't a problem; they're small and nimble and don't kill people when they hit them.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#229

Post by jandrese » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 1:36 AM UTC

mcv wrote: post #228

jandrese wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's literally a slow walking pace. Kids running would be breaking the speed limit. Bikes would always be breaking the limit. The speedo in my car isn't even accurate at speeds that low.

It's not about a hard speed limit, it's about driving at walking pace. It's not for thoroughfares, it's for cul-de-sacs where people live and children play. No car has any business going fast there. Bikes aren't a problem; they're small and nimble and don't kill people when they hit them.

Bikes on the road are subject to all of the same laws cars are.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#230

Post by ndnxhs » Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 2:22 AM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #143

What I find funny is that the American mall that so many people disparage (like citylab) is a place where the streets are closed to cars. Cars are not really the problem and people should really stop focusing on this object as the reason of so many social problems that exist. The car is used by individual people and families to somewhat mitigate these large scale problems. Lots of cool main streets have cars going th…

Malls are hated because they create car dependence. They kill off all local stores and require you to drive for 30 minutes to get to a shop. They also take up massive amounts of space for parking.