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What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

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Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#21

Post by dasil003 »

gnulinux wrote: post #18
alistairSH wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn’t have anything similar, at least not normally. Roads are almost always wider than needed, I assume because it feels safer, but really just makes people drive faster. Any redesign that deprioritizes cars in any way (even if it just appears to do so) is ridiculed and fought against.

> Roads are almost always wider than needed Wait until you see Boston. I live in this street in Cambridge, its not quite wide enough for buses so occasionally they cross the lane of the opposite direction, especially if some asshole parked a little off. If this wasn't unsafe enough, there is also an elementary school near this street! In general. Boston streets are very narrow and it makes it hard to drive since (1)…

This is actually beneficial for pedestrian safety because it decreases the perceived safe speed for all sensible drivers, versus putting a 25mph speed limit on a wide boulevard where everyone drives 40mph.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#22

Post by throwawaysea »

egypturnash wrote: post #16
throwawaysea wrote: post #7

You can also have more parks and fields that are well-maintained and available in proportions appropriate to the local population (i.e. not held at existing supply through density changes). It is a false dichotomy to suggest we have to choose between kids playing outside and having streets for transportation. Not to mention that anyone who grew up pre-Internet or pre-smartphones knows that the real barriers to kids p…

"mommy can I walk ten blocks to the park" vs "mommy can I go outside, the local kids are playing soccer in the street" also, have fun making the case for the land purchase, remodeling, and ongoing maintenance budget for that new park

Making the case for changing streets to either not carry cars or enforce extremely low speeds is also difficult. We need fast, convenient transport so we can spend more time on other things, after all.

But I also don't think reality is always walking 10 blocks to get to the park. That may be true in some implementations, but it doesn't have to be that way and it was not for me growing up. And even if it was, kids used to bike much longer distances on the sidewalk to get to their friends' places or a park or whatever.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#23

Post by kingo55 »

I live in St Kilda, Australia and our council recently changed one of our iconic streets to almost exclusively be for pedestrians and trams.

Businesses protested for months about potential lost business, however as a resident I feel so much safer walking down the street. It feels like foot traffic has increased there, too. It's such an improvement.

I also like to think tunnels to apartment buildings could help us take more cars of the road and create more green spaces for people in the future.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#24

Post by ndnxhs »

Qwertystop wrote: post #6
justtopost wrote: post #2

Nothing happens if you keep them inside feeding their tiktok and fortnite addictions. I can't even recall the last time I broke up a hockey or streetball game driving through neighborhoods.

A large reason kids play Fortnite is because it provides a space to socialize - it's a lot harder for kids to get anywhere without a parent driving, these days, and the parents are a lot less likely to leave the kids unattended, which tends to put a damper on things. Even malls often try to discourage crowds of teens, if you can even get there without a drive.

Very much true. I ended up playing games I didn't even like just because it was a way to meet up with friends from school who all lived about 15 - 30km away

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#25

Post by throwawaysea »

glangdale wrote: post #13
throwawaysea wrote: post #7

You can also have more parks and fields that are well-maintained and available in proportions appropriate to the local population (i.e. not held at existing supply through density changes). It is a false dichotomy to suggest we have to choose between kids playing outside and having streets for transportation. Not to mention that anyone who grew up pre-Internet or pre-smartphones knows that the real barriers to kids p…

I think the ability to get to the parks and fields without parental intervention is important in itself. I live in a neighborhood in Sydney where many of our streets are traffic sewers that people blast through at amazing (relatively speaking) speeds. As a large, visible adult, I walk the dog every day and 1-2 times out of 10 some idiot on a street 50m from my house doesn't know what the rules on a crosswalk are. Peo…

That seems to me like a different problem (one of education or enforcement of traffic laws), although I acknowledge that a middle ground helps. I have not had the same experience as you where I am - maybe that is because we have traffic signals in some places, or crosswalks with flashing lights in others, or more courteous drivers for the rest of it (unmarked crossings), but I definitely feel plenty safe walking around.

I also wanted to add one more thought: kids are a lot more capable than parents give them credit for. This underestimation of kids' abilities is particularly prevalent in modern Western societies - if you travel to less developed nations, young children are able to successfully navigate complex cities with much more unforgiving streets unsupervised, with confidence.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#26

Post by ndnxhs »

throwawaysea wrote: post #22
egypturnash wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"mommy can I walk ten blocks to the park" vs "mommy can I go outside, the local kids are playing soccer in the street" also, have fun making the case for the land purchase, remodeling, and ongoing maintenance budget for that new park

Making the case for changing streets to either not carry cars or enforce extremely low speeds is also difficult. We need fast, convenient transport so we can spend more time on other things, after all. But I also don't think reality is always walking 10 blocks to get to the park. That may be true in some implementations, but it doesn't have to be that way and it was not for me growing up. And even if it was, kids use…

My parents needed a lot of convincing that riding a bike on the road was safe. And I was 19 at the time. Also my suburb has no sidewalks and the nearest oval is an hour walk away.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#27

Post by whatshisface »

kingo55 wrote: post #23

I live in St Kilda, Australia and our council recently changed one of our iconic streets to almost exclusively be for pedestrians and trams. Businesses protested for months about potential lost business, however as a resident I feel so much safer walking down the street. It feels like foot traffic has increased there, too. It's such an improvement. I also like to think tunnels to apartment buildings could help us tak…

>Businesses protested for months about potential lost business

Out of curiosity, how did that pan out? Closing off an area to road traffic is basically a re-prioritization towards nearby residents, and away from distant visitors and the commerce that they engage in, so it would be interesting to know how badly the latter groups suffer.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#28

Post by baxtr »

I don’t get why cities are built around cars. As much as I love to jump into my car right outside my house, I’d love it even more when there was no car sound in the streets and children could safely walk everywhere. In densely populated cities cars should be banned outside of major roads

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#29

Post by whatshisface »

throwawaysea wrote: post #25
glangdale wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the ability to get to the parks and fields without parental intervention is important in itself. I live in a neighborhood in Sydney where many of our streets are traffic sewers that people blast through at amazing (relatively speaking) speeds. As a large, visible adult, I walk the dog every day and 1-2 times out of 10 some idiot on a street 50m from my house doesn't know what the rules on a crosswalk are. Peo…

That seems to me like a different problem (one of education or enforcement of traffic laws), although I acknowledge that a middle ground helps. I have not had the same experience as you where I am - maybe that is because we have traffic signals in some places, or crosswalks with flashing lights in others, or more courteous drivers for the rest of it (unmarked crossings), but I definitely feel plenty safe walking arou…

>That seems to me like a different problem (one of education or enforcement of traffic laws), although I acknowledge that a middle ground helps.

The choice boils down to a dense, very large police force, versus streets designed to make good behavior natural. The latter can be a lot cheaper (and will involve many fewer tickets) than the former.

Re: What Happens to Kid Culture When Streets Are Closed to Cars

#30

Post by whatshisface »

baxtr wrote: post #28

I don’t get why cities are built around cars. As much as I love to jump into my car right outside my house, I’d love it even more when there was no car sound in the streets and children could safely walk everywhere. In densely populated cities cars should be banned outside of major roads

Building a city around cars means building it around people who live far away. The people who live out in the suburbs and commute in get a lot more out of the roads than the people who are a block away from every place they need to go.
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