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China Cracks Down on Churches

nytimes.com

221–230 of 245 posts

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christians persecute Muslins. Muslins persecute Christians. Buddhists persecute Muslins. Christians persecute Jews. Muslins persecute Hinduism. It is not a Christian thing, it is a religion tradition all over the world to persecute other religions. Christians have done this for millennia and sometimes they are victims themselves. I think the solution is to stop with the craziness altogether.

Persecution of minorities is a human psychological reflex shared by all living human beings. If you got rid of religious differences you would just end up with more energy going in to race, political teams, and whatever else.

That's actually not true, since we're able to see these types of societies in the present timeline and none of what you just described exists in any appreciable, sufficient manner. In fact we see the exact opposite, to the point where right leaning citizens tend to besmirch the pro social practices of the government.

It's amazing that these types of unexceptionally wrong perspectives, especially whimsical bio-truths, continually get posted on this forum.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is why it's frustrating when some make it seem that Christians are incapable of facing persecution, Literally no one does this. Western Christians are incapable of facing persecution in the current social and economic climate. This is because Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society. It has nothing to do with someone being a Christian else where in the world. The sentiment you are attempt…

> Western Christians are incapable of facing persecution in the current social and economic climate. This is because Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society. This belies a grave misunderstanding of how human societies actually work. It doesn't matter how many of your team are out there in the world when you are one team blue in a room full of twenty team red. If a team has at least two members…

>It doesn't matter how many of your team are out there in the world when you are one team blue in a room full of twenty team red.

I mean if you're going to just go "big number greater than smaller number" and attribute that to a deep understanding of human societies and general political power structures how on earth are you going to explain the current geopolitical situation as it stands today? That's incredibly daft, and your attempt at labeling it as "grave misunderstanding of how human societies actually work" is absurd.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#223
post #29

This is why it's frustrating when some make it seem that Christians are incapable of facing persecution, based entirely on their experiences in the US. The Christians in China are very brave for standing by their faith, and I wish them luck and peace.

>This is why it's frustrating when some make it seem that Christians are incapable of facing persecution, Literally no one does this. Western Christians are incapable of facing persecution in the current social and economic climate. This is because Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society. It has nothing to do with someone being a Christian else where in the world. The sentiment you are attempt…

I love how "milktoast" you can see HN being right now. A bluntly factual statement gets flagged on HN. Can't imagine how the demographics of the "hacker" forum played into this.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#224
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can absolutely eliminate it, you just don't want to because it would cost too much. I suppose macro trends would also explain why black social issues always get flagged on HN as well.

Eliminate a Western audience looking at things from a Western perspective? That is an excessive idea of what moderators can do. We are janitors.

You are no janitor. You banned my new account on Christmas when I was trying to help someone who is committing suicide on your website: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18758099

Congratulations on being the grinch.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#225
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eliminate a Western audience looking at things from a Western perspective? That is an excessive idea of what moderators can do. We are janitors.

You can do something so that black social issues links do not get removed.

Plenty of such articles have been discussed here, and we've often turned off flags on the more substantive ones. It really depends on the specific article and how well it fits the mandate of this site. Not all social-issue articles do.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pope leads Catholics. As an Anglican, Methodist or God forbid (pun intended) a Quaker if the pope leads them and they’d get a good laugh. There are absolutely Protestant denominations that accept biblical stories as absolute truth.

I apologize for the inaccuracy. But I hope my point of "blindly" accepting all faiths is understood.

No worries, I just thought some clarification was in order.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re making the mistake of equating Christianity and Catholicism. They have the same roots but all of the things you’re assigning to Christianity is really the machinations of ‘The Church’ weilding Christians beliefs as a cudgel for the aspirations of ruling bodies. There is definitely a fine line between the two that is often blurred, but Christianity at its core is about people who are oppressed finding f…

> " I think you’re making the mistake of equating Christianity and Catholicism. They have the same roots but all of the things you’re assigning to Christianity is really the machinations of ‘The Church’ weilding Christians beliefs as a cudgel for the aspirations of ruling bodies. " I grew up in the rural South. I assure you churches serving as the cudgel of ruling classes is not limited to a single denomination. Cath…

I think you'll find that historically, due to the interference from Rome, Catholicism was the denomination that resisted this the most, and that this was in fact a large part of the reason for Protestantism to come into existence in the first place.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you also lead people to theocracy. There are positions one can take between "all religions are peaceful, good, and true", and "kill the religious"

You don't lead people to theocracy by warning against killing for dogma. On the other hand, creating dogmas about religion being the source of all evil can have pretty awful consequences. There isn't a simple road between the two positions you gave, there is an entire territory.

[flagged]

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#229
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then look at the front page, look how it never applies to everything, not even close, and how trivial, cute subjects never get these complaints. People are avoiding their own responsibility and don't like when others exercise it. Since I can only guess anyway, that's my guess. What I know for a fact is that the reasons against such a topic simply being where the interest of people puts it, do not hold water, that…

The boundaries are not nearly as arbitrary as you imply. They are determined by what the community has the capacity to discuss while remaining within the site guidelines. If we did it any other way, HN would destroy itself.

> what the community has the capacity to discuss while remaining within the site guidelines

Which is arbitrarily decided on a case by case basis. It seems stuff just gets flagged off the front page by users, and sometimes it has the [flagged] thing, sometimes it doesn't.

People can already hide topics from the front page for themselves, and blissfully ignore them. What is the point of flagging things, are there limits or can people just flag until you arbitrarily take that ability away, where is the accountability? How is taking away the ability of others to speak altogether better than the possibility of some cussing or other things that are harmful to good faith communication?

It may be harder for people to remain civil around lethally serious subjects, but it's not impossible -- and it's not fair to punish everybody, to let random people punish everybody, because you predict what would happen otherwise. It's like a stone that keeps tigers away, on steroids even:

> If we did it any other way, HN would destroy itself.

Any other way? That "way" is still a black box. So this is a super tight rope, and left and right is utter destruction? What does "destroy itself" mean, that the server would vanish? Or that it would "bleed" from one topic into another, and suddenly people are also more irate about wiggly lines?

And of course, if you actually believe that claim, then you can't even make any changes, you can't try it out, because then HN would destroy itself. How perfectly circular.

How do you know the opposite isn't true, that if things are arbitrarily suppressed, it leads to a bad atmosphere and grudges, and people get tempted to bring up a topic when it's not actually the topic?

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't lead people to theocracy by warning against killing for dogma. On the other hand, creating dogmas about religion being the source of all evil can have pretty awful consequences. There isn't a simple road between the two positions you gave, there is an entire territory.

[flagged]

>why do you take their opinion as "kill all religious people"

I don't, I haven't said that anywhere.

>it is absurdly stupid to say that religion is source of all evil

Yes it is absurdly stupid.

This is the point I have been making.

Repeatedly.

It is a very stupid position to take.

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