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Brain Drain Within the EU?

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Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#221

Post by RugnirViking »

stzup7 wrote: post #217
growlist wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint, I received a tax rebate in the post a couple of years after leaving Belgium to return to the UK. Somehow I doubt the UK's tax office would be so diligent in seeking out former taxpayers abroad to return money to them!

They are. After a 6 months internship in the UK and without telling/asking them anything, they returned money to me a year later.

Can confirm, I also recieved a nice rebate almost a year after leaving my old job due to a clerical error by them meaning I was taxed for a few months after I left.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#222

Post by petre »

Eug894 wrote: post #218
petre wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it kind of exagerating to call western EU governments corrupt and invite investors into Ukraine, a country that struggles to get out of Russia's grip and had several swift regime changes, a poisoned president and an ongoing war in the last 20 years? Also, tax extemptions for a job sector that isn't threatened in any way are discriminating.

Well, yeah, unfortunately majority of Ukrainians are not smart enough to overcome those problems (mainly with Russia). But even without IQ qualification for voting, I hope, they will be able to rule over the state right. I don't participate in voting as you can guess from my profile... Regarding the taxes. They are not that discriminating! Because in absolute values other workers may pay to the state even less than p…

So in absolute values poor people are ripped off (live off $210) while IT workers are well off (live off 2850$). How is that not discrimination? A flat rate of 19% for everyone, like Poland has is quite fair in comparison. Other countries in Central and Eastern Europe have cheap food producs as well:

https://bit.ly/2MYtD1l

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#223

Post by Eug894 »

petre wrote: post #222
Eug894 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yeah, unfortunately majority of Ukrainians are not smart enough to overcome those problems (mainly with Russia). But even without IQ qualification for voting, I hope, they will be able to rule over the state right. I don't participate in voting as you can guess from my profile... Regarding the taxes. They are not that discriminating! Because in absolute values other workers may pay to the state even less than p…

So in absolute values poor people are ripped off (live off $210) while IT workers are well off (live off 2850$). How is that not discrimination? A flat rate of 19% for everyone, like Poland has is quite fair in comparison. Other countries in Central and Eastern Europe have cheap food producs as well: https://bit.ly/2MYtD1l

That is because they are doing useless jobs or work which is not yet in demand here. If they invested in education or some equipment which were raising in demand, they would be fine. Many of ordinary workers in Ukraine emigrate to the EU actually - even more would do that if the EU did not establish those discriminating boundaries with visas : )

But the main reason of their poor life is corrupted government which have been here for many years and which didn't give them opportunity to invest properly (not everyone can be a programmer, I admit). We had several hyper-inflation periods with banks going bankrupt, with too complicated legislation no one seriously followed, unfair privatization of former state property, policemen killing and robbing people, etc.

...€2.32 for 1 kg of potatoes in Norway?! I got a millionaire idea.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#224

Post by user5994461 »

growlist wrote: post #216
user5994461 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first point is self explanatory. There is no shortage of STEM graduates and a limited amount of jobs. Why would would you want to train many more? Every big developed country has some of the best universities in the world. The UK is not any better than what can be found in Germany, France, Switzerland, Poland or Romania. I guess what I am trying to get at is that there is no struggling as you said. It's the oppos…

> The UK is not any better than what can be found in Germany, France, Switzerland, Poland or Romania. Proof? US dominates global rankings, with UK pretty much second.

The US dominates rankings made by the US. How surprising.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#225

Post by craigmorrison »

This is what happens when you have freedom of movement over a log period of time. People are going to love where the opportunities are, especially if it’s made easy. I bet a similar graph for the US would show people moving to states like CA and NY.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#226

Post by wsc981 »

kaybe wrote: post #219
wsc981 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netherlands would be one of those countries that has high taxation and indeed has good infrastructure and still decent public services (though it's been getting worse). Still I decided I wanted to leave the country for many reasons, but in part because I feel I pay too much for what I receive. Now I live in Thailand with my girlfriend and while infrastructure is much worse and public services are of (much) lower qual…

What happens if you lose your job or fall ill?

The key is good health insurance now, build up savings quickly and then if needed can use money from the savings for serious stuff not covered by health insurance.

But the private hospitals are very nice indeed in Thailand and very affordable as well. A decent healthcare plan for me + girlfriend would cost us around 1200 EUR a year (total), while in The Netherlands it would be double that amount and we would just get basic healthcare (i.e.: not to be used for private hospitals).

I do believe it's highly unlikely I will lose my job (mobile programmer) in the coming years. I believe there will be plenty of work for at least the next 10 years and probably much much longer. And as a freelancer I might be less affected by ageism.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#227

Post by renjimen »

ido wrote: post #184
renjimen wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but you need to earn over ~600k DKK per year to qualify, IIRC. That’s around 80k Euros, which is what you might earn after 5-10 years in tech here.

After visiting Copenhagen I'm shocked to find Danish salaries are that low...If you pay 50% taxes I can't imagine living on €40k/y with Copenhagen prices.

You certainly don't move to Copenhagen long term to make money. You come for the quality of life! The accumulation of wealth is just not as big of a deal here as it is in the UK or the US. Most people trust the state to take care of them should they need help, and people generally trust each other to contribute to the economy if they are fit and able.

If you're coming from North America I might add that you are legally entitled to 5 weeks of paid vacation a year. Many people get 6. That doesn't include public holidays (~11 pa). New parents have some of the best treatment in the world, you're paid to study, homelessness and crime are ridiculously low, it has one of the world's best infrastructure for cycling, etc.

There's a joke Danes make that you know you're becoming Danish when you enjoy paying your taxes. With such a well run society you can certainly see why.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#228

Post by renjimen »

Eug894 wrote: post #147
renjimen wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Danes buy property in their 20s and 30s, usually with help from their parents. It helps that mortgage rates are still very low too. There's not as much of a renting culture as there is in say, Germany. In the Copenhagen area property prices are already growing faster than salaries. Apartments in my relatively central area have gone up by over 20% in the last 3 years. I'm not sure what the situation is like in sm…

In the Copenhagen area property prices are already growing faster than salaries. Yeah, that's what worries me - landowners having earned enough wealth will start to use their land for other purposes. Or there will be other wealthy people who will order such a reassignment. Thus increasing prices faster than technology can increase supply. It seems unlikely, but who knows for sure? Thanks for the info!

There are some quite strong laws in Denmark about the foreign ownership of land, and tax starts to ramp up quite quickly as soon as you purchase a second property. People don't tend to put their earnings into multiple properties like they do in, say, the UK (where I'm from).

I haven't read much into the property market here but I would guess the rapid increases in prices is down to increased demand from people moving here, rather than land owners re-purposing their property. I could be wrong though :)

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#229

Post by growlist »

user5994461 wrote: post #224
growlist wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UK is not any better than what can be found in Germany, France, Switzerland, Poland or Romania. Proof? US dominates global rankings, with UK pretty much second.

The US dominates rankings made by the US. How surprising.

You are the one that made the claim, and thus the burden is on you to back it up.

Re: Brain Drain Within the EU?

#230

Post by ido »

renjimen wrote: post #227
ido wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After visiting Copenhagen I'm shocked to find Danish salaries are that low...If you pay 50% taxes I can't imagine living on €40k/y with Copenhagen prices.

You certainly don't move to Copenhagen long term to make money. You come for the quality of life! The accumulation of wealth is just not as big of a deal here as it is in the UK or the US. Most people trust the state to take care of them should they need help, and people generally trust each other to contribute to the economy if they are fit and able. If you're coming from North America I might add that you are legal…

Well I live in Berlin on similar salaries but the costs here are half of what I've seen in Copenhagen.

I can't imagine a comfortable middle-class life in Berlin on half of what I make.

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