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Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

independent.co.uk

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Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#221

Post by chongli »

b6 wrote: post #216
taneq wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of things that are pretty unequivocally good or bad. When we anticipate one of these things happening, our emotions change accordingly and this helps to guide our actions in avoiding or encouraging the thing in question. That's what emotions are for . If you have any control over the course of events that affect you, you should experience an emotional response. Anything else just seems like learned h…

> There are plenty of things that are pretty unequivocally good or bad. Could you name one? For maximum utility in this conversation, can you pick something likely to happen more than once in an ordinary life, some common case?

I am not the GP but I will give it a try. Unequivocally bad:

Death of a loved one.

Unequivocally good:

Birth of a child.

Most people tend to experience these things more than once in a normal life. They represent a reality more real and more final than even psychedelics could manage: life and death. Impermanence.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#222

Post by dqpb »

lalos wrote: post #76
GauntletWizard wrote: post #61

I tried Psychedelics for my depression, and my roommate has been self medicating similarly. I think they can help - but they're going to make the current opioid epidemic look like child's play. I have very carefully limited my intake - and I'm finding that I don't like a lot of what I've found. I'm definitely finding my roommate is becoming a worse person, and well on the way to all of the ugly things that we associa…

What are the ugly things associated with psychedelic drug use? I would think the 'worst' would be becoming a full blown hippie and remove yourself from society but still that would be a personal choice. What are the traits you see as a worse person?

Thats clever! Warp a persons mind with drugs and then chalk up any extreme behavior change to personal choice.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#223

Post by dqpb »

phry wrote: post #145
dqpb wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's take medical advice from ancient intoxicated tribesmen. That will work out great.

excuse me sir, your western chauvinism is showing

I'm just a rational adult whose skeptical of practically everyone. My comment can be applied to all cultures throughout history.

Your thought-terminating-cliche however is clearly biased.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#224

Post by ryanmercer »

kneel wrote: post #9

I've had great experiences with LSD, experiences that may have even changed my trajectory in life. That being said I would never recommend LSD to someone undergoing serious mental health issues. IMO not safe at all, you can really end up in a bad place.

I would actually advise against anyone undergoing moderate mental health issues to avoid LSD, psilocybin and especially DMT (in fact, DMT should only be tackled by people with considerable experience with psychedelics and ONLY when it a good mental space, even then it can easily be a terrible and jarring experience).

Instead I'd probably nudge them towards MDMA perhaps under proper medical treatment until they can work through their issues and actually get to the underlying problem (if it is in fact something that therapy can work through and not some chemical imbalance that needs treated by chemical means).

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#225

Post by cyberpip »

bencollier49 wrote: post #215
pmoriarty wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet" Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. The experience could put everything in to questi…

Unfortunately, certain psychedelics have the effect of imbuing everything with significance, which results in apparently "earth shattering" revelations during an experience which later turn out to be dross. Unfortunately in some cases people carry on believing the dross. It's like hearing a song or a joke in a dream which seems really beautiful or funny, and turns out to be utterly dull when you wake up and replay it…

I'd agree that it does make everything seem significant, at least for a period, but it's what comes after that has significance, after a period of integration. It creates an ability or a moment to come at a problem from a new angle, previously closed off to a person due to their established thinking patterns and past experiences. I think the important thing to consider here is that if a person goes into these experiences with a goal, it's likely they will gain new insight on that goal, at least from my experiences.

Curious though, what kind of new assumptions do you consider unhealthy?

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#226

Post by b6 »

chongli wrote: post #221
b6 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are plenty of things that are pretty unequivocally good or bad. Could you name one? For maximum utility in this conversation, can you pick something likely to happen more than once in an ordinary life, some common case?

I am not the GP but I will give it a try. Unequivocally bad: Death of a loved one. Unequivocally good: Birth of a child. Most people tend to experience these things more than once in a normal life. They represent a reality more real and more final than even psychedelics could manage: life and death. Impermanence.

> Unequivocally bad: Death of a loved one.

Imagine how it would be if we didn't die. So is death good or bad?

I have a family friend whose first wife died of cancer. After mourning for years, he found another woman and married her. Unlike his first wife, she was insistent on having a baby. When their baby was born, he told us that, having held his child in his arms, he understood now that it would have been a huge mistake not to have had a child as he originally planned with his first wife. So was the death of his loved one good or bad?

> Unequivocally good: Birth of a child.

My sister was born and it must have been a very happy event. When she died it was very hard for my parents. Was her birth good or bad?

This is what the story is getting at. It doesn't make sense to assign good or bad to things. We don't have enough information yet. And we never do. It perpetually remains to be seen.

It's not apathy or learned powerlessness to accept the fact of reality that you just don't know enough to say whether something is good or bad. It's wisdom.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#227

Post by cyberpip »

Ntrails wrote: post #211
pmoriarty wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[W]hy this[psychedelics] is not four-inch headlines on every newspaper on the planet" Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. The experience could put everything in to questi…

> Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. Distorting perception doesn't reveal truth, it simply allows you to experience something "other" than reality. It's not that this is…

I'd argue that it allows you to experience a _different_ reality, which, when juxtaposed against the collectively agreed upon reality we all live in, offers insights. Though I'd be skeptical of anyone claiming enlightenment, I do believe some wisdom is possible, if not just very useful insight.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#228

Post by cyberpip »

dagaci wrote: post #212
psyc wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychedelics punch through the big illusion, as in maya. They give the game away. I feel people are subconsciously and collectively terrified of this.

The sudden lift of mood engendered by drugs should imprint the idea that "the depressive cycle can be easily dismissed and is not useful in anyway" when as you unwind, recalling that experience is a key to permanently removing negative cycles without drugs.

I completely agree. Once you know that you can break free from a mental pattern, the trick to getting yourself out of it in the future seems easier. Once shown, you learn.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#229

Post by CuriouslyC »

gepi79 wrote: post #208
s-shellfish wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it at all possible to explain this to a sober person? One who is neither consciously nor subconsciously afraid of having the illusion removed?

Do not fall for the romantic tales of psychonauts to reach some kind of enlightenment. All these people suffer from psychosis. The human experience of the world (thoughts, vision, audition, pleasure, fear,...) is triggered by the nervous system (including the brain) that reacts on bio-chemistry. Changing the bio-chemistry changes the human experience but gives no super powers. Most likely your thoughts on drugs are l…

You have no idea what you're talking about. The thing that makes psychedelics so good at curing depression is that they are able to consistently induce a new perspective in people that is much healthier than the one that results from all our modern "knowledge." It has nothing to do with random destabilization at all.

Re: Psychedelics could heal brain cells in people suffering from depression: study

#230

Post by Ntrails »

cyberpip wrote: post #227
Ntrails wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Psychedelics might reveal to you that the neat little reality that you thought you had all figured out is a lot stranger and different from from what you thought it was, that your understanding of it might be all wrong, and that your place in it might not be all that cozy and secure. Distorting perception doesn't reveal truth, it simply allows you to experience something "other" than reality. It's not that this is…

I'd argue that it allows you to experience a _different_ reality, which, when juxtaposed against the collectively agreed upon reality we all live in, offers insights. Though I'd be skeptical of anyone claiming enlightenment, I do believe some wisdom is possible, if not just very useful insight.

I'd need some argument for it being a different reality.

Brain in a jar/The matrix style VR perception altering technology could make me experience a different world - but it wouldn't be reality. I actually could still see this resulting in wisdom under certain circumstances, so I guess I have to cede that actually :)

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