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Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

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Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#221

Post by muninn_ »

rxhernandez wrote: post #219
jedberg wrote: post #22

There is definitely an education bubble. It's way too easy to get money for college. You hear a lot of stories about the increasing costs of college and crushing debt on graduation, but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back. We need a fundamental shift in the way college is paid for. Some…

>but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". I suspect that it's either because you're not listening or people aren't talking about it. I had 3 years of on the job engineering experience and an established, good credit history when I got denied a loan for my last year of undergrad at a state school. Mind you this was fairly recently and my only loan for school I applied…

So did you drop out?

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#222

Post by womprat »

lawlessone wrote: post #6
PatientTrades wrote: post #4

There is plenty of blame to go around here. However a major cause of this has been the push by the left that college is the only path to success. Trade and vocational schools as well as military service are all great options for young adults who may not know exactly what they want to do with their life right away. Spending 4 years of your life taking on debt, simply because society tells you college is the path to su…

>as well as military service are all great options for young adults Getting shot at for an education doesn't seem that great. Better off just moving to a better country.

Uhm.. apparently you have little to no experience with the US military.

This worked out fine for me, no shooting involved: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35T

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#223

Post by muninn_ »

vkou wrote: post #217
wutangson1 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where did this concept of college as a 4 year vacation come from? You have to show up to class, study, be diligent, and apply effective time management skills. Otherwise, you'll be put on academic probation and then kicked out. Even for those people who seem to have a knack for finding lax professors and classes, coasting is not necessarily a college student thing.

I coasted through five years of college, graduating with a CS and Math joint-major, three internships, and 20 more credit-hours then I needed. I did the bare minimum of studying, and applied little to no time management skills (Unless you count the occasional half-assed assignment finished on Sunday night.) I spent more time worrying about World of Warcraft, then I did about the possibility of ending up on academic p…

Weird, I have had the opposite experience.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#224

Post by xenihn »

smallnamespace wrote: post #84
cloakandswagger wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have too many people thinking it's okay to discredit scientists and scholars because they don't understand how research works. And a similar number of people who elevate science to the level of religion, marching in its name and developing a brand of hero worship for scientists when they too know nothing at all about the scientific process. Both are forms of anti-intellectualism that are growing in our polarized…

I've seen this form of scientism playing out frequently on Reddit and other Internet forums lately. Discussion will be about some piece of controversial research, e.g. GMOs or vaccines. People who want to discuss the merits of the research are shouted down by what I can only describe as 'science fanbois' -- anything that is 'against science' must be wrong. They're missing the inherent tension in science between a rec…

>Discussion will be about some piece of controversial research, e.g. GMOs or vaccines. People who want to discuss the merits of the research are shouted down by what I can only describe as 'science fanbois' -- anything that is 'against science' must be wrong.

Discussions on reddit (and all sorts of other social platforms) are being influenced and manipulated by people who are being paid to do so, and anyone who denies that at this point is delusional.

Source: I know people who run firms that provide this service.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#225

Post by ithilglin909 »

vec wrote: post #198
ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

Yeah, but isn't that also the "problem" with subsidizing K-12 public school? One doesn't need a high school education to wait tables or stock shelves, and most apprenticeships and trade schools could probably be started several years earlier without issue. We used to have this Enlightenment ideal of a Liberal Arts Education. It served as job training, sure, but it also tried to make its recipients better citizens and…

Comparing a college education to K-12 public education doesn't make sense. In general, one needs to understand some mathematics up through Algebra and have some reading and writing abilities to be an employable, productive adult. Whether the public school system in the USA does a good job of providing a basic education is a different discussion.

I’m not the kind of engineer that has a STEM only mindset and I see a lot of value in good Liberal Arts education, but let’s be realistic -- whether it’s because of nature or nurture, there are plenty of college freshmen who are just not going to be intellectuals. Even if it was free (and it would never really be free), it's not a positive thing to encourage them to spend four years majoring in communications or the like.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#226

Post by jethro_tell »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155
jackweirdy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

Another thing to note, here is that you could do free Community College which costs a lot less and is a pretty good indicator of future performance in 4 year college.

We don't have to pay tuition to Ivy League to get a better more educated workforce.

So if you can pay for it, you are welcome to take your AA classes at a state 4 year, if not, we'll get you a free transfer degree from a local community college and at that point, you can choose between trade, tech, or a major at a 4 year school.

If we detach, 'everyone gets free school' from the idea that we need a more educated workforce to maintain our standing in the world, we can work toward a solution that is a net positive in society and not just a panacea for people who feel they've been left behind.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#227

Post by Overtonwindow »

I majored in PolySci, so definitely non-stem. It was tough at first to manage my student loans, but with experience and pay increase, it got better until it was paid off. I knew going into this field that it's not always lucrative, and I would have to follow specific pathways to make a good living. I worry that universities don't teach students the true value of their degrees, and emphasize enough the average and typical salary expectations. There are too many college graduates saddled with enormous debt, but lacking a degree that will allow them to earn enough to pay it back, let alone develop a successful, and rewarding career.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#229

Post by Overtonwindow »

LeoJiWoo wrote: post #13

We need to cut student loans,and at the same time force tuition back down (probably by putting federal and state pressure on them by threatening to cut grants or taxing them higher). Universities need to return to their core purpose teaching young minds, furthering science, or preparing them for jobs. Instead of the corporate universities drowning students in debt.

The basketball coach at my alma matter is paid double what the university president makes. I think that's wrong. I am deeply in the minority, but I think universities should focus less money on athletics, and more on academics.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#230

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

berbec wrote: post #135
workthrowaway27 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as far as I know student loans aren't securitized and leveraged in the same way as mortgages were, so I'm not sure that the fall out will be as bad. The root problem (as others have noted) is too many people are encouraged to go to college and even though most majors don't make economic sense students (rightly) feel that they need a college degree to be a competitive applicant for good jobs. Maybe I'm just in an…

They aren't securitized the way mortgages were, but you also can't walk away. Student loans are immune to bankruptcy so it follows you forever.

That is the major difference, mortgages had people underwater on actual physical things like property. They would go bankrupt and foreclose which would have a domino effect on other things.

Student loans are ignored in bankruptcy and there is no domino if they fail to pay since a degree isn't transferable to another person.

If there were to be a bubble burst, the people impacted are those that can't pay loans back and the institutions that handed out the loans. Sure there could be a backlash but a lot of those loans are from the Fed, right?

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