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We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

danluu.com

221–230 of 653 posts

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but it does show exploration and curiosity to at least try another language or two. If you’ve been doing .NET or PHP for 5+ years without even trying something else I’d treat it as a red flag too. Level of interest is the #1 quality in the great programmers I’ve been around. If you aren’t exploring even a little that’s a concern.

Making the assumption we're talking about good programmers here: If you've been doing .NET or PHP for 5+ years, you're just now starting to become an expert at those languages and their environments. That 5+ years experience could just as easily display dedication and care about their craft; a commitment to understanding the ins and outs of their tools. For example, who would you rather have write your payment gatewa…

> if a candidate has 5 languages on their resume for 5 years of work, they've raised a red flag. Why haven't they stuck with any of them?

I'm a contractor - I use whatever language the client is going to pay me to use. In the past that's been C, Ruby, Tcl, Perl, Python, a tiny snippet of Java, etc.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#222
post #9

I disagree with this article, to some extent at least. Perhaps it's specific for trendy companies and startups. Most of which are just looking for the next shiny object, true. However, when you look at companies that move the needle in different industries, companies that have repute, market share and profitability, they couldn't care less what is trending these days. They look for domain expertise and excellence. I…

I wanted to post a snarky response to your comment, and so I went to the Rennaisance web page to look at their vacancies. And lo and behold, no Keras or Kafka in sight. I'm impressed. That's certainly not true for the Facebooks and the Apples of the world.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you don't know everything. Looking at your profile, I see the words "technician" so I am thinking you were trained at some point.

Yes the Navy "trained" me by saying "here are 20,000 pages of documentation on the E-2 Airborne Early Warning aircraft avionics, now go fix it". That has nothing to do with my CS studies, of which I have learned nothing from college and could have CLEPed a BS degree on day one if it was possible and moved on to a masters where I should have been initially placed. > I'm sure you don't know everything. I never claimed…

At least they didn't treat you to a two-week-long PowerPoint presentation.

...on the previous version of the system.

...the month before the training was updated to the most recently fielded version.

...taught by a retired Army guy.

...from Texas.

...who won't stop telling stories about his Army days.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#224
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re past 30 you’ve probably been programming for at least 8 years. If you’ve never touched another language...yes...that is a concern.

Concern for who? How old are you? I'm closer to 40 than I am 30 and I don't put projects I worked on when I was 22 on my resume. If I can't remember the details, it's not going on my resume. If I can't give good/interesting answers when asked about that project, its not going on my resume. I don't want to fill my resume with a lot of irrelevant crap since I have real experience to put on my resume. I've worked with m…

I'm 37.

> I've worked with many languages both professionally and (very) casually, probably over a dozen. I only put the ones I have mastered on my resume.

And that is excellent and I would consider that perfectly normal and rational behavior. You have more than one. You took the time to explore. It's a field of constant problem solving and lack of exploration of solutions is something that sticks out as a giant red flag because of that.

More experience is definitely better. If I were hiring for a particular language I'd certainly want more than a weekend's experience, but some experience is still better than no experience.

At my last job we interviewed a guy who was about 5 years out of college and had been working in a .NET shop the entire time. He was applying for a ruby position and his only experience was spending a couple of weeks in his spare time building a Rails site. From that minimal experience, we were able to get him to explain why he decided to pursue it, what he liked about it, what problems he was trying to solve, what weaknesses he was trying to overcome that he was seeing in .NET, etc.

Despite the lack of language experience, we hired him based on the "geek gene" that clearly showed problem solving skills and desire to learn. The guy was absolutely rock solid and became one of our most valuable team members within about 2 months time. I believe he's the CTO of a funded startup now if I remember correctly.

If he'd had only Rails and I'd asked him about what weaknesses he saw with the stack...my very next question would have been what he tried to do to overcome those weaknesses. Maybe he answers about what other things he tried within the stack, caching techniques, using jRuby, refactoring in certain ways, etc and as long as that could be articulated it would generally be okay. In general though, seeing how other languages handle the same problem is going to be perfectly normal part of the process...which should lead to having more than one language on the resume.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the Navy "trained" me by saying "here are 20,000 pages of documentation on the E-2 Airborne Early Warning aircraft avionics, now go fix it". That has nothing to do with my CS studies, of which I have learned nothing from college and could have CLEPed a BS degree on day one if it was possible and moved on to a masters where I should have been initially placed. > I'm sure you don't know everything. I never claimed…

It was in fact possible to go straight to a Master’s in Software Engineering. Oxford’s distance Master’s will take experience in place of a degree. https://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/softeng/

Is it still possible somewhere, somehow?

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#226
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have never worked with someone from Oracle. They do not try to hire remotely the best, they hire cheap. Anyone that can churn out barely functional code, use their customers to functional test it, and take often half a fiscal year to provide a bug fix for you. Oracle is now more of a technical holding company than a software company, aside from their db, they merely pickup/purchase new companies and wring them ou…

Is a fiscal year longer or shorter than a calendar year?

Technically the same, just with different start dates. But there's a catch: suppose your fiscal year starts Oct 1st, and you request help on August 15th. The answer is often "we're at the end of the fiscal year, but we have approval to start work on that in October".

So if it takes half a fiscal year, depending on when you first say you need it, it can be much longer.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#227
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except all of those companies put an unreasonable amount of weight on degrees. Good luck getting Google to talk to you if you didn't graduate a top collage, let alone not having a degree.

When Microsoft hired me in 2006 they didn’t even ask about my lack of degree. I’ve also interviewed at Google and Amazon. Amazon didn’t ask either. Google probably asked, but it didn’t disqualify me.

Do you think the difference now is that the market is more saturated with developers since it started to become a little more of a hot-ticket, and carries less of the old 'nerd' stigma?

Also, I'm curious about how you managed to even get your foot in the door at such large organizations and not just get swept out in a filter at the gate. I'm assuming of course that such large companies employ some kind of application tracking system (which may be in error).

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#228
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the point, a person who is good at mathematics and algorithms will get hired at Google even if she doesn't have a cs degree.

Not true. I've got a Ph.D. in theoretical physics, am very math heavy, created a number of algos for my work over the last 25+ years (in physics sim, bioinformatics, systems management/orchestration, etc.), run sessions at an ACM conference, yadda yadda yadda. Two google interviews, and nothing. From what I hear from other people I consider way smarter than I, they also got nothing. Google has a much copied process,…

> I've got a Ph.D. in theoretical physics, am very math heavy, created a number of algos for my work over the last 25+ years (in physics sim, bioinformatics, systems management/orchestration, etc.), run sessions at an ACM conference, yadda yadda yadda.

> Two google interviews, and nothing. From what I hear from other people I consider way smarter than I, they also got nothing.

Then you and your friends weren't fluent enough with algorithms. That is the point, they don't care about all of your degrees, years of experience, conferences etc, they care about your fluency with maths and algorithms. This means that even a person with a shitty background can get hired at Google while a person with a stellar background gets rejected. Should you have gotten hired? Probably, but their system lets them find a lot of diamonds in the rough who wouldn't get hired anywhere else which is why they use it.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#229
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why on Earth would you assume that? Because you've been in the field for 10 years and never once looked for a solution to that problem. It's a giant red flag. > Absolute nonsense. Explain why please. That's basic human behavior.

If you are doing paid work you work with the tools you are told to work with. You don't get to go off on your own and do what you want. That, however, doesn't preclude you from understanding the flaws of your tools. In fact, I'd expect someone to be an expert in knowing the limitations of a language they have worked with for so long. That doesn't even mean you like your tools or you'd prefer to use them over other to…

I said I'd treat it as a red flag. You're assuming it's a rejection checkbox. The interview will still determine everything.

The process I've been using to evaluate hires for the last decade or so has yielded excellent results.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#230
post #176
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have never worked with someone from Oracle. They do not try to hire remotely the best, they hire cheap. Anyone that can churn out barely functional code, use their customers to functional test it, and take often half a fiscal year to provide a bug fix for you. Oracle is now more of a technical holding company than a software company, aside from their db, they merely pickup/purchase new companies and wring them ou…

> You have never worked with someone from Oracle. They do not try to hire remotely the best, they hire cheap. Anyone that can churn out barely functional code, use their customers to functional test it, and take often half a fiscal year to provide a bug fix for you. They have a huge services division and that's the same formula used by all the big players. It's a numbers game for billing and they shoot to make it wor…

> The database is incredible

This is something I've heard over the years but I'm not sure if it is still holds true. (I work with Oracle databases daily).

Oracle DBMSes are very robust, to be sure, and you can expect them to run forever. But in my mind other databases seems to have caught up and there really isn't a compelling reason to choose Oracle over other commercial databases anymore (also, Oracle pricing is a big deterrent).

In terms of performance, Oracle's licensing prohibits any benchmarking, but anecdotally I haven't found it to be particularly performant for most of my queries. Oracle used to be known for the innovative under-the-hood algorithmic improvements to the database, but lately I haven't seen anything too exciting, whereas SQL Server is getting better every year with new innovations (columnstore indices, in-memory features, Polybase, in-database Python/R computations, etc.).

> use cases I'd recommend it for over open source alternatives has shrunk to nearly nothing.

I agree, though I would say for heavy transactional use cases, I would still choose a commercial database over an open-source one. However, among the commercial databases out there, Oracle would be my last choice. It has too much legacy crud that have to worked around. The only reason Oracle is still around is because (1) In the enterprise, no one gets fired for buying Oracle. (2) fungible expertise in their services organization ensures business continuity, albeit at a lowest common denominator level.

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