Iceland's attempts to replant its forests • Hacker News Board

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#221

Post by joveian » Fri, Oct 20, 2017, 11:10 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #38

avar wrote: post #6

For reasons I won't go into the farming lobby is really strong in Iceland. Sheep run free-range around the entire island, if you'd like to grow something that sheep like to eat you need to fence it in. It's not like pretty much anywhere else in the western world where people who own grazing animals need to fence them in. Thus the sheep range far and wide and destroy Iceland's native low-lying forests. Iceland's nativ…

> Sheep run free-range around the entire island, if you'd like to grow something that sheep like to eat you need to fence it in. It's not like pretty much anywhere else in the western world where people who own grazing animals need to fence them in. This is the case in at least Norway as well - it's certainly not unique to Iceland. Though I assume environmental effect of it in Iceland is compounded by the climate.

Also in Syria apparently (this article also has a dramatic picture of what happens when land is fenced in away from grazing): http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2871076/overg...

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#222

Post by rconti » Fri, Oct 20, 2017, 11:22 PM UTC

hduwvzvshsuz wrote: post #216

rconti wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is an effing joke, as the federal government charges pennies on the dollar for grazing rights compared to what a private landowner would charge. And yet, the Bundys want the taxpayers to take it in the shorts even more for their privilege and profit.

How exactly are taxpayers paying anything?

If they're getting charged less than market rate, the government is subsidizing their behavior on public lands.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#223

Post by selectodude » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 12:00 AM UTC

godshatter wrote: post #205

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they make two separate web pages, or rely only on less ornate tooling for a niche user base?

They could just load the images and videos without the need for javascript. We know that they can do this, because they specifically made it show low-res versions for those without javascript. They went out of their way to handle this admittedly niche user base already, purposefully to make their experience worse.

Most people who don't have Javascript are using very old, antiquated browsers. The NYT cares enough about its lower-income and foreign readers to make it fail gracefully. I think that sending low-res photos makes infinitely more sense.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#224

Post by setsquared » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 12:03 AM UTC

This will be an interesting experement and I wonder what wildlife it will bring back and any damage it will reverse

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#225

Post by samstave » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 12:11 AM UTC

avar wrote: post #6

For reasons I won't go into the farming lobby is really strong in Iceland. Sheep run free-range around the entire island, if you'd like to grow something that sheep like to eat you need to fence it in. It's not like pretty much anywhere else in the western world where people who own grazing animals need to fence them in. Thus the sheep range far and wide and destroy Iceland's native low-lying forests. Iceland's nativ…

cool so what do you suggest?

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#226

Post by SCHiM » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 12:46 AM UTC

avar wrote: post #159

njarboe wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Iceland a few weeks ago and the people, museums, info plaques, etc. talked about deforestation and how the early settlers chopped down all the forests. Also mentioned was forestation and how they were slowly replanting. The grazing by horses and sheep were never mentioned as a problem. I did hear about how flocks of sheep are just let loose in the highlands in the summer to graze and the sheep herders separa…

The tl;dr of Iceland's colonization is: Norse settlers arrive, placement in society is based on how big of a farmer you are. Thus they overgraze and unlike their native Scandinavia they're doing this on a volcanic island with really thin topsoil, so the overgrazing leads to runaway topsoil erosion and dustbowlification. This leads to desperate logging of the last of the trees around for firewood and housing. It's nev…

Thank you for your insightful comment, you learn something everday :)

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#227

Post by dredmorbius » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 1:46 AM UTC

avar wrote: post #191

dmix wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused, there's no private property laws to prevent farm animals from grazing on non-farm property? Nor is there crown land to build national parks with giant forests? An effective farm lobby wouldn't be able to affect either of those things in almost any other western countries... The problem doesn't seem to be the lobbyist but some strange lack of fundamental laws, if the government can be coerced into allowi…

First of all you have to understand that private property in Scandinavia and Iceland works differently than it does in say the US. It's more appropriately phrased as a "limited land-use right", and the land use is always for a particular narrow purpose. So for example, if you buy a farm and put a fence around it I'm still free to walk across your property to get to where I'm going, because farms are intended for farm…

Ay refs or background on this?

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#228

Post by phkahler » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 1:55 AM UTC

spraak wrote: post #138

phkahler wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably have to let the sheep roam because there isn't enough food if they fence them in. Here is a nice video on farming practices that might reverse desertificaiton: https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_worl... Not sure if that would apply to Iceland, but it seems reasonable for someone to try it.

Allan Savory's theories are wildly unsound and have been debunked... But it seems like good intention.

Except that the land they tried his ideas on really did start growing stuff again. Nobody refuted the results he shows in the presentation. What may have been "debunked" is the notion that it's somehow good in terms of CO2 production, but even that isn't clear to me - plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere, and animals put it back.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#229

Post by ransom1538 » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 1:57 AM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #182

akeck wrote: post #47

Maybe take an page from the Easter Islander playbook: Build vast networks of rock wall closed cells. Wind blowing over these will tend to deposit some of its soil. Bonus points if the walls are high enough to keep out sheep. ;-)

Many islands are deserts because they don't have high enough elevation to catch moisture. In Hawaii a guy planted trees along a ridge line to pull moisture from the clouds and converted the climate. I can't remember his name or which island it was, this might be it: http://www.visitmauiblog.com/blog/pine-trees-lanai/

The island was lanai, HI. The ferry from maui to lanai during sunset is life changing.

Trees: https://everything-everywhere.com/the-pine-trees-of-lanai/

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#230

Post by delbel » Sat, Oct 21, 2017, 2:12 AM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #140

sliverstorm wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not need a higher efficacy, herd immunity does not require 100%. Chart of herd immunity thresholds for some diseases: https://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/assets/img/herd-immunity/im...

Lyme disease isn't passed from human to human so herd immunity is irrelevant.

lyme disease can be passed human to human as a std or the womb from mother to child