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Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

nytimes.com

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Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#131

Post by stcredzero »

durgiston wrote: post #121
ckinnan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is actually a similar problem in the Northeastern United States. Deer are overpopulated (in my area 6x traditional level) because they have no predators and hunting is restricted. The deer eat all of the hardwood saplings. In many mid-Atlantic forests there are very few 10-20 year old hard wood trees, they don't survive the deer.

The NE also went from 30% forest to 70% open/farming land to 70% forest 30% open in about 100 years as agriculturalism gave way to industrialization. So that could also contribute to giving deer more cover/habitat. Also we killed all the wolves east of the Mississippi 50 years, and coyotes have yet to fill their niche.

Wolf sized coyotes that hunt in packs. Not sure I like that.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#132

Post by SeanDav »

OT:

Now that is an example of an article's photos done right! Not at all intrusive, like those horrible scrolling photos that are so popular on various sites and some great effects of zooming and pull-back, plus a convenient slide-show (With Captions) by clicking on a photo - Well Done NYT!

...and here is an example of how not to do it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/sold_for_a_song

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#133

Post by kibwen »

durgiston wrote: post #121
ckinnan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is actually a similar problem in the Northeastern United States. Deer are overpopulated (in my area 6x traditional level) because they have no predators and hunting is restricted. The deer eat all of the hardwood saplings. In many mid-Atlantic forests there are very few 10-20 year old hard wood trees, they don't survive the deer.

The NE also went from 30% forest to 70% open/farming land to 70% forest 30% open in about 100 years as agriculturalism gave way to industrialization. So that could also contribute to giving deer more cover/habitat. Also we killed all the wolves east of the Mississippi 50 years, and coyotes have yet to fill their niche.

> The NE also went from 30% forest to 70% open/farming land to 70% forest 30% open in about 100 years as agriculturalism gave way to industrialization.

Source? It would surprise me to see that many people voluntarily give up their farmland rather than, say, selling it to industrial farmers or real estate developers.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#134

Post by brohee »

ccozan wrote: post #107
ccozan wrote: post #64

Is this a case where robots could do almost all work? Define an area, load the saplings and send the robot to bore holes, put the sapling, fill, repeat.

I don't understand the downvotes. Can someone explain? Is a valid question, looking for an answer from a person with more knowledge.

Your "solution" doesn't solve the "sappling being eaten by free roaming sheep" issue. Not the more complex issue of soil creation.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#135

Post by mywittyname »

Kluny wrote: post #105
riot504 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears a simple solution of allowing hunting to occur would solve the problem. Why is hunting restricted?

I don't know what the case is in NE US, but in my town in British Columbia, the deer population is out of control in the metropolitan area, and every time a cull is mentioned, animal rights activists put a stop to it through loud and effective lobbying. It's quite irritating.

Even if they were allowed to hunt deer, it probably wouldn't help. So much of the land deer graze over in the Midwest is suburban and have laws in place regarding setting off a firearm.

This limits hunting to public lands, of which, there might be 2-3 within an hour drive of the city. So no matter how much the hunters kill, they aren't likely to effect the populations in the surrounding suburbs.

There are more hunting spots in the rural areas, but those areas are also populated by natural hunters, like wild dogs and large cats.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#136

Post by mywittyname »

sdenton4 wrote: post #125
thebooktocome wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sheep aren't very fun to hunt though.

OTOH, it's really hard to hide from them in iceland, what with the total lack of trees. Just a different kind of challenge...

360-noscope irl.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#137

Post by sliverstorm »

ghaff wrote: post #126
zaroth wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which we have a perfectly good vaccine for but it was shelved purely out of FUD! http://legacy.wbur.org/2012/06/27/lyme-vaccine

"Perfectly good" is an overstatement. Efficacy wasn't that great (80% or so) and there was some evidence of side effects. Overall, the vaccine should almost certainly have not been taken off the market but it's not a near-perfect vaccine vs. FUD story either. See, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/

You may not need a higher efficacy, herd immunity does not require 100%.

Chart of herd immunity thresholds for some diseases:

https://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/assets/img/herd-immunity/im...

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#138

Post by spraak »

phkahler wrote: post #128
avar wrote: post #6

For reasons I won't go into the farming lobby is really strong in Iceland. Sheep run free-range around the entire island, if you'd like to grow something that sheep like to eat you need to fence it in. It's not like pretty much anywhere else in the western world where people who own grazing animals need to fence them in. Thus the sheep range far and wide and destroy Iceland's native low-lying forests. Iceland's nativ…

They probably have to let the sheep roam because there isn't enough food if they fence them in. Here is a nice video on farming practices that might reverse desertificaiton: https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_worl... Not sure if that would apply to Iceland, but it seems reasonable for someone to try it.

Allan Savory's theories are wildly unsound and have been debunked... But it seems like good intention.

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#139

Post by bwanab »

kibwen wrote: post #133
durgiston wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NE also went from 30% forest to 70% open/farming land to 70% forest 30% open in about 100 years as agriculturalism gave way to industrialization. So that could also contribute to giving deer more cover/habitat. Also we killed all the wolves east of the Mississippi 50 years, and coyotes have yet to fill their niche.

> The NE also went from 30% forest to 70% open/farming land to 70% forest 30% open in about 100 years as agriculturalism gave way to industrialization. Source? It would surprise me to see that many people voluntarily give up their farmland rather than, say, selling it to industrial farmers or real estate developers.

Lot's of people gave up on farming hardscrabble New England in the early part of the 20th century which resulted in reforestation. Farming is making a comeback in niche products, but nothing at the previous scales. This article (sorry for the paywall) gives a good summary: http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/11/21/how-new-england-....

Re: Iceland's attempts to replant its forests

#140

Post by oh_sigh »

sliverstorm wrote: post #137
ghaff wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Perfectly good" is an overstatement. Efficacy wasn't that great (80% or so) and there was some evidence of side effects. Overall, the vaccine should almost certainly have not been taken off the market but it's not a near-perfect vaccine vs. FUD story either. See, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/

You may not need a higher efficacy, herd immunity does not require 100%. Chart of herd immunity thresholds for some diseases: https://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/assets/img/herd-immunity/im...

Lyme disease isn't passed from human to human so herd immunity is irrelevant.
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